On Wednesday afternoon, I found a email by Chris Sims in my inbox. Chris works for D&D insider but I knew him for having worked on quite a few D&D books, my favorite being the D&D 3.5 Rules Compendium and having briefly chatted with him at Gen Con last year.
As I read the email, it dawned on me that it was a response to an adventure proposal I sent them 8 months ago. I had pitched a concept for a D&D adventure for children aged 6-10 in order to help geek parents introduce their kids to the joys of roleplaying.
I had completely forgotten about the idea, thinking my concept was rejected.
Turns out that Wizards is interested and wants me to expand on my proposal, giving them a complete outline of the adventure. Yay!
So this brings me to today’s chat. In my various discussions with people, I’ve noticed that while no one seems to have an issue with children participating in freeform roleplaying games, there seems to be a significant portion of the parenting population that have issues with Dungeons and Dragons.
I’ll assume that parents who don’t want their children to play D&D aren’t going to be D&D insider subscribers so lets not debate about D&D advocacy or get into any of the classic reasons why parents are against D&D.
What I’m interested about is if there are other issues that parents of 6-10 year olds would want to be addressed in order for them to be fully comfortable playing D&D with them.
For instance, my main issue as a parent is about the game’s implied violence.
One of the values of our household is that violence is not an acceptable solution for any problems except self-preservation. While I’m perfectly aware that a lot of D&D is about combat, that I can’t shelter my children indefinitely, and that Nico is already exploding people with dynamite in our stories, I wouldn’t want a 6-10 adventure to be about combat. If there was to be combat it I’d like it to be against non-sentient being, or have it be non-lethal.
Another, minor issue, is that I’d like the adventure to be open-ended enough to allow children to be as creative as they want to resolve the various challenges that the adventure would present them. I wouldn’t want the DM of such an adventure tell a young player “I’m sorry but you can’t do that”. In my mind’s eye, a creative and descriptive solution from a young player should always be allowed instead of a Skill check/Skill challenge roll.
In fact, I’d flirt with creating diceless skill narrative challenges…
…Hmmm (Phil notes something in his ‘dangerous ideas’ file).
So, what abouty you? What issues would you (or your spouse) have with playing D&D with children under 10? What would be your expectations in an adventure aimed at parents/children?
Let me know!
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It’s something I’m always struggling with myself.
My stepson is almost 8 and he’s at the age now where I would be comfortable running a game for him and his friends because I know they are mature enough to understand the basic mechanics of the systems I use. Where I really struggle is in finding a happy medium between my beliefs that violence is wrong as you say and the TV shows that they watch day in and day out. When you get down to it non-lethal violence is still violence.
We try and keep the kids learning in our house and the cycle of life is one that we do our best to get them to understand. From growing our own veg to killing, gutting and cooking our own poultry they see that we do some things in order to survive. We don’t however glam it up as a game. My kids also attend church with my wife and they are doing a really good job of explaining the ‘thou shalt not kill’ side of things.
My general feelings at the moment is that any games I would run for them would be of a kind where there was very little combat involving humanoids. And where it did occur it would be very much in the vain of Ben 10. No real violence or blood letting and the bad guys get up and run away. Add in lots of explosions/fireballs and it should be exciting for them without getting to realistic.
I did have a point somewhere but I think I’ve rambled a little to much 🙂
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Not being a D&D player I don’t have a lot to offer on that , but as a parent I think the violence would be an important issue for me. Not that it should be non-lethal, or only vs. non-sentient creatures, but that it isn’t gratuitious.
I don’t have a problem with playing that swords kill people and think it’s okay for kids to learn this. I think we tend to have a knee-jerk reaction to the uber-violence in our culture and overprotect kids from any depictions of it. But remember, the woodsman kills the wolf, likewise the three pigs. As an adult I look back at the A-Team and GI Joe and laugh at the trope they created of good guys being able to shoot anything but the actual foes; but as a kid it just seemed asinine, and does still when considered sincerely.
Have you read this thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=397944 sometimes kids will surprise you with you generous and kind they can be.
Best of luck.
@Bob: When I talked about non-lethal violence, I had Ben 10 and similar TV shows in mind. And I agree with the Fireballs and explosion, kids are probably more likely to respond to the Rule of Cool than adults.
@MZR: You hit a good point with the non-gratuitious violence. I would not want to have a ‘ninja crash through the window and attack’ scene in an adventure designed for kids below the age of 12. However, defending themselves against the big bad or protecting loved ones would be a possibility.
I’ve read the Lego Keep on the Shadowfell thread and that’s what inspired all my Bedtime Campaign games with Nico.
I would start the kids off the same way i started.
simple dudgeon crawl, let them fight combat that’s what drew us to the game when we were kids “you mean we killed the monster, cool” (start with 1st edition, limit their options lol)
its just a game, treat it as such
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I started the same way Mike. I was 10 though and don’t ask me why but I seem to have this dividing line with before and after 10 when I think about combat encounters and kids.
Then again, when I played a story game with my 5 year old daughter, she killed the First dinosaur she met…
I think that all parent have different view on violence exposition to children and each side have valid argument. Having no child of my own yet I’m still kind of divide on the subject and my position would have no weight anyway. 😉
I think that you should put the antagonist has villains without describing them too much. Let the parent fill in the blank as they see fit for their own value and according to the age and predisposition of their kid. It could range from a mutant plant that does not know it’s hurting people to an evil orc wanting to harm the kids parents.
You could even suggest to let the child choose what the villain could be.
The “quest” aspect of the adventure could be to capture someone (or ones) alive. Example:
The king’s younger brother has gone into the woods to lead a group of rebels (Robin Hood style) to overthrow the king. But the king still loves his brother and just wants him brought back in alive, so that they can reconcile.
There’s even a “lesson” in it!
I don’t really have much to add to this conversation, as I can’t stand children and try to avoid them as much as possible. I do have to say though that their creative capabilities far surpass those of adults. Any time I needed some enemy or monster that was strange or unique, I’d go to my little sister. She never failed to amaze me with the weird stuff that she’d make.
One monster she made for me was a giant animated piggy bank that ate everything in it’s path an converted them to pennies.
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I have been thinking about this for a couple of months now. I would love to introduce my youngest children (5 & 6) to rpg’s but was not sure just how to go about it. I hadn’t thought too much on the content of it (we allow them to play xbox and they love call of duty, etc) but was more concerned about the mechanics of it and what they could comprehend.
I started playing basic d&d when I was 7 (waay back in the early 80’s) and I was able to grasp things fairly quickly. My children are very smart, and can be very imaginitive, but I think throwing too many rules at them could turn them off quickly. I think in addition to a possible diceless concept, the rules themselves would need to be on the lite side. Perhaps other things like spells would need to be adjusted as well…make things a little more cartoonish perhaps?
@ Yan: Letting some room to allow the parent DM to define the villain is a very good suggestion. Letting the child do it is even better!
@Michelle: My quest is already spoken for and was part of my initial proposal, you aren’t all that far from it actually. 🙂
@Franz: I agree that children have not have had their creativity squelched by our education systems’ obsession with ‘the Right answer’ and ‘The logical answer’. I totally want to tap into that in the adventure.
Heh, I don’t have kids (obviously), but this open-endedness seems like a good idea for 6-10 year olds. Just make the game reasonably simple so that if anything goes a mile off the rails, it shouldn’t really make a difference.
Your ideas about no violence reminds me of Lego’s BIONICLE line, one with a rather complex storyline. Way back, 2001, the Toa (protagonists) didn’t kill their enemies, they removed their masks, making them docile.
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A good antagonist does not have to be villainous. A fellow treasure hunter following the same clues as the playing child serves as an example of other decisions. A competitor on another team wants to win and is willing to go farther. Some one in authority who does not know all of the story and limits the player’s choices are all good antagonists, as well as serving up a more useful serving of ‘what if’ to engage the imagination.
I play superheroes with my boys, aged 7 & 11. I started with Classic Marvel but they complained it was “too simple”, and I took the jump into them playing Mutants & Masterminds. They’re still not sure of character generation – I have to help them using Hero Lab, but they love the way the game flows.
My top tip: don’t treat them like kids. Children can be more adult than many adults I know, so treat them as such. They’ve both ploughed through my ancient comic collection so are surprisingly well-versed in the tropes of the genre (when a teacher asked the class who their favourite superhero was, my 7-year old said “Moon Knight” without hesitation, and had to explain who he was. I’m so proud), and are even more strict than me about the “heroes don’t kill” rule. That surprised me – particularly with my youngest who tends to show more violent tendencies!
Seriously, the superhero genre is a great one for gaming with children. They dream up the bestest superpowers and are far more well versed in the genre thanks to the wealth of Saturday-morning cartoons and movies out there.
One alternative to the problem of not wanting to get too gory with the kiddos is to use monsters that aren’t alive in the first place.
Some kids like ghost stories, so perhaps a “Goosebumps”-style haunted house/dungeon might be the answer. Or maybe the bad guy makes constructs, where once again you aren’t really killing things.
Also, the adventure might require the PCs to bring the bad guys back for trial. So when a foe is at 0 hit points, they’re not dead so much as knocked out.
consider an indiana jones style crawl through an ancient ruin, with alot of traps. Perhaps to rescue someone (say a princess) from a say a witch who has no interest in fighting up close, so surrenders when the heroes enter the room.
Watching the old “Legends of the Hidden Temple” might give you some ideas.
Feature fairy tale classics, like riddles. Feature some puzzles. If there is fighting consider imps in mechanical suits. When they beat the “suits” the imps surrender and give them helpful information.
In short, do what saturday morning cartoons do to address the issues of violence.
So from what I hear so far, violence is a common issue to some, less so for others. Apart from that there seems to be only one other issues related to playing the game with children and it is the apparent needless complexities of the 4e ruleset for children.
Thanks all for the suggestions of quests and ideas, many of them are really good and watching saturday morning cartoons is certainly going to be in my ‘research’ material, along with renting some classic kid adventure movies like the Goonies, Holes and Witch Mountain. I should probably model a support NPC on Dwayne Johnson (The Rock).
I thought about constructs as a possible enemy, but then realized that dehumanizing an enemy is not the way to go. Have violence, have consequences. A tenet of good children’s lit is not to dumb down the story. Similarly I wouldn’t dumb down the morale consequences.
First time commentor here, but I have been reading it for a while. Great blog!
I’d like to concur with the above – children have a tremendous capacity for imagination and creativity; any adventure would need to tap into that. It also needs to have a lot of ‘cool’ factor without getting bogged down with the details.
I know its a bit cliche, but for an idea of what kids can handle, just look at what JK Rowling did with the Harry Potter books. Sure, its for a slightly older audience, but most of the kids I know (even really young ones) seem to enjoy them just fine. With a little humor mixed in, kids can get into most any kind of story.
I also like the idea of making the purpose note really about killing a big bad boss, but more about accomplishing a goal. Here is an example that is going to be a bit long, so I apologize, but feel free to take from it what you will.
Hook: Princess is under a spell/curse/illness that can only be cured with X magical item. The King gathers up some adventurers and sends them on their way.
Along the way a series of challenges are presented to the players, challenges that they have to resolve with a bit of creativity – and that allow for multiple resolutions. For example, the players must delve deeper into the keep/tower/dungeon and must cross a room. The room is actually a storage closet filled with magical brooms and mops that defend the keep. They swarm the players and they have to decide how to resolve it. Flashy magic (wizard) works, but the fighter can also use their abilities as well to mow down the minion mops. Maybe a thief sneaks his way across the room without alerting the cleaning crew. This could be potentially fun combat without the worry of battling a living opponent. (and the potential for humor is there)
As long as you emphasize the fun and encourage the players to work together to creatively solve the problem, they’ll enjoy it and come back for more.
Wow…all this has got me really thinking. Thanks for the jumpstart!
I did some digging around via Google and found some great systems already out there that are designed for kids and lite on the rules side. Firefly Games makes what looks to be a great system. Would be a great gateway until they are ready for more rules, etc and can play the grand daddy of them all…DnD
I need to leave for the day but I wish to welcome the new/recent commenters to the blog. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Greywulf’s comment about using Superhero RPGs is a great one if you are looking to start with your children.
I also agree with @MRZ’s and @Richard C’s statements that any adventure for kids should not be “dumbed down” children can grasp complex plots and 3 dimensional NPCs.
Thank you all!
I just started playing D&D with my son who turned 12 in February. I had originally planned to teach him when he was six, but his own development changed those plans. When he was younger, I did watch his exposure to violence in games, movies, TV shows, etc. But that wasn’t what made me wait until this year.
It was his temper. My son is what most schools define as a “special needs” child. Until the beginning of this year, he couldn’t go more than about 10-12 hours without falling into a violent fit (hitting, kicking, biting, damaging property) that frequently lasted 3+ hrs at a stretch. I wasn’t willing to play with someone who was likely to go ballistic if a die roll went against him. I wouldn’t put up with kind of behavior from adults at my table, so I definitely wasn’t going to put with it from my child.
I think how much violence a childrens’ adventure should have depends on the child. I could’ve started playing D&D when I was six or so (as it was, I didn’t find out about until 1980 when I was 12); my son has just reached enough maturity at 12.
I also think that childrens’ fears should be taken into account. Gaming is supposed to be fun entertainment, so I would never create an encounter that would cause a child to deal with their worst phobia(s). It’s hard enough for adults and children haven’t had enough time or experience to learn coping techniques.
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just posting examples i think good concepts ive encountered, Dungeon builder on nintendo DS, Pokemon, and Lazy town, put in a bowl and mix…
dungeon builder and pokemon are both monster catching games.. you only KO and collect. you kinda trade with others and battle to show of skills like a sports start, but also adventure to find new exciting monsters.
Lazy town only kids program i can think of with out violance thats not for babies.. oo Fraggles i dont remeber any of the plots in fraggles
a evil man wants to stop the noise kids and make them lazy some how they win normaly a machine or robot or radio controll device is found and broken or revesed
scooby doo, lots fo chase-ing and running away… out think the monsters? trapping and catching again..
id be more concered with evil ideas of the villans then violance. to solve problems.
i mean old fairy tales have baby eating witches, murdering stepmothers ive not seen a book about one of these for 5-10 for ages… to pc and clean..
i dont know how you stop people fighting or KOing and using sneaking and running away instead… with out it being forced on them thus ruining creativity..
hummm new thought.. interesting characters .. imaginative characters NPCs
that why makes you remeber a cool adventure..i’d love to give example but it would take up to much space.. a problem for parents with no imaginations.. no used to rpg or do only people with imaginations play rpg games..
so youd need a massive book of ideas like the piggy bank monster.,. bascialy i see you writing a how to be a creative thinker and writer type book..then a rules set…
any way my mind burp is over now…
This may have been said already (I didn’t have the time to read all the comments here), but one big thing would be to turn expectations on their heads: a kobold or goblin who wants to do good, a dragon who is angry because someone stole something from him, treants who want to stop humans from cutting down their forests, a splinter group of orcs who want to befriend the elves, etc.
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@Rafe: Kids starting RPG won’t have these expectation. You need to have been expose multiple time to a cliche, in order to have any expectation.
I would rather embrace and play all the tired old cliche… Then when they have become teens and expect the cliche surprise them with any of the suggestion you gave.
Which are excellent but requires the cliche to be known to have the impact you are suggesting.
@Cheri: I agree that you need to gauge your child’s emotional maturity and adjust the game played accordingly. My son Nico as already shown me, on more than one occasion, that he would rather resolve a problem without violence if given the possibility. I’m happy to see that you can now enjoy the game with your son.
@Milarky: Good catch about Lazy Town, it is a cool kids show and it features the best Pirate song. And you are also right that creative thinking is a great asset to write adventures, for kids and adult. In fact, were I to write a book on creative thinking, I’d probably start by telling people to play with kids more and refrain from telling them “no” while playing.
@Rafe: Like Yan says, the joy of playing with kids is that you get to shape the expectations which is great in itself and then you can deconstruct the expectation by subverting the cliche/tropes and enjoy the surprise it creates.
From my (single) experience, the children will give you the tone of what they’re looking for while playing.
I avoided combat with humans and gore based on the parents’ requests.
I was lucky enough to have two or three of the children loquacious enough to describe their actions and give generous hinds about what they were expecting to see.
(We’ve struck this dragon four times already – shouldn’t he have lost some part of his armor yet?)
I suspect that engaging their creativity and giving them premises, they could give you enough material to whip up a villain or a storyline on the spot.
Of course, you need to be able to pick up on those ideas and come up with something cool.
Hopefully I’ll get there 🙂
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You should seek out blogs of childrens’ book authors and get tips before you start this.
@Eric: You’ll get there, you’ll get there! 🙂
@Noumenon: Solid tip you just gave me. I totally will.
Depends what age they are, Yan. You’d be surprised what kids come to the table with. Many know about Lord of the Rings and have heard or read enough stories to expect the simple things: orcs are bad, dragons are big and mean, elves are always nice, etc.
Instead of “expectations” I ought to have said “stereotypes.” 🙂
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Yan has lived a sheltered life. He was raised by Iroquois Monks in a Cloistered willow-bark monastery, making canoes until he was 18, when he enrolled in a College to become a software engineer… so don’t hold anything against him.
🙂
Iroquois monks!? Good one! 😉
Not to derail the discussion on violence, but other ideas would be…
1. Lots of choices. So maybe a little bit of an old school dungeon map-wise.
2. Age appropriate puzzles, riddles, etc.. Give them plenty of alternative work arounds.
3. Make the monsters super bad and very evil. Avoid demons/devils etc… to reach the broadest possible audience.
4. Put in lots of goodies. Let the goodies be less about the math of the game and more about the neat abilities gained.
I’d say you know and have mentioned before most of the above already Chatty but I thought I’d remind you. Should be interesting.
@John:
Good ones!
I’d add : keep to the “kiss principle” when preparing scenarios.
Depending on age, the kids have not played through all the clichés (even if they might know of them).
Sometimes, one of these kids might surprise us and put a new spin on old classics.
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@John: Good summary of the principles I intended to use for the adventure, with a few twists that I think will be appreciated by readers.
@Eric: This will be quite a challenge for me as I have a natural tendency to overcomplicate things. I’ll keep that particular principle nearby.
@ChattyDM:
Weren’t you the one who told me something like “KISS and say yes”?
(who will Google bring here with that one?)
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I don’t think the presence or absence of violence is so much the issue as its presentation. I caught a few minutes of Ben10 the other day and I was struck by the combat-driven action sequence. It was fast, furious, and filled with peril. But nobody died (as far as I saw).
Much of the peril came from the results of people doing things in combat; swing a sword and the rope holding back the barrels gets cut, which the characters then have to dodge for fear of being squashed. It’s like making skill checks in combat.
Also, even if one character “hits” another, there are narrative ways to describe it without it being an actual “hit”. You just need to abstract away the notion of hits and hit points. Now more than ever actually, hit points aren’t a measure of damage anyway so use them as a means of demonstrating who has the upper hand. Fireballs don’t burn people, they bowl them over. Falling doesn’t mangle people, but it does stun them for a moment or two. And so many powers are “cold” or “heat” or “divine” or what-not that you’re awash with things to use that don’t involve outright bloodshed.
Cartoons have been doing this kind of thing for years. That’s where I’d look for inspiration.
Fireballs don’t burn people, they bowl them over. Falling doesn’t mangle people, but it does stun them for a moment or two.
Jackpot! Thanks Mark, this is the element I was looking for. As a DM for a game with kids, I can describe how each weapon swing and each spell works out. So a sword that hits can be described as the enemy dodging out of the way of the sword and crashing in a pile of barrels, knocking the wind out of the combatant.
Awesome!
@Mark Lawford:
Yes! Nice!
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I would suggest picking up the “Knights of the Silver Dragon” series of novels from Wizards of the Coasts juvenile novel publishing arm (which can be found here http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Mirrorstone/Knights/Home.aspx ).
These books are good for ages 8+ & will give your child a basic understanding of D&D style fantasy (in a D&D 3.5 context). Also as the books are about 3 kids who can get stuff done because the adults are to busy being all adult (and all kids basically see the world like that), they can relate to it.
Then its an easy job to adapt your play style to this sort of game, so your kids can get a hang of it, without having to worry about all the violence. Its mainly problem solving with occasional bloodless combat (which boils down to make something explode and run).
As a GM you will have to read the books as well, but even i (literary snob that i am) enjoyed these books, as great examples of early introductional fantasy fiction.
To boil it down
– Bad guys should always have relatable motives & be bad people rather then slavering insane demon worshipering cultists
– Problem solving and analytical thought should win out over brute force
– monsters should be mindless beasts that occour in large numbers, but are pretty mechanical (like plant creatures, my suggestion; wortlings)
– The bad guy almost always has a “Object of Power” he is using to achieve his goal & there is almost always an object that opposes it. Sometimes these objects aren’t so much objects as creatures (like the Orcwort).
– Quests to discover the counter-object are great ways to pull in the kids
– Last but not least, let the kids play kids.
Also, if your doing this with 4E, i would suggest dropping the entire project, because 4E is just not kid friendly. Its to number heavy & is nothing but combat. Kids will get bored of this quickly.
I hope this has helped
-M
My first experience in the RPG world was in D&D. I was 7. The older brother of my best friend DMed it for us. My friend was a wizard and I was a fighter.
The story was very simple. It happened ages ago so I don’t remember a lot of details, but I do remember a princess in danger. She was taken by an evil wizard in a cave. It was a maze. We encountered simple creatures. Giant bees, wolves, ogres, and other easy to imagine creatures. The only human we had to fight was the wizard.
I remember that both of us really wanted to roll dices. The more often the better, so I would think twice before taking them out of the picture. I know that we did failed at one point but instead of killing us, he used the knocked out solution and we only had to escape to continue the adventure.
And about the “protecting” children from exposure to violence… I think it simply depends on each child and their reaction to it. My son doesnt want to listen more then once to most of Pixar movies.
Exemple:
Finding Nemo: The mother and all the babies die at the beginning.
Wall-e: He thinks it’s too sad since Wall-e is pretty much alone for most of the story.
But he gladly listen to Batman (Cartoon), Transformers animated, Code Lyoco, etc. Which all has some level of violence too.
So it’s not that I have to protect him from violence. It depends of context and the focus of the story. The whole focus of the story of Finding Nemo is pretty much Marlin in panic over losing his only surviving crippled son. But he love the idea of fighting a bad guy from robbing a bank.
I will simply create a “Zorro” type of story for him.
Hrrrm, this conversation reminds me of some of the old sonic the hedghog games, where, if I recall correctly, many of the bosses were actually sonic’s forest buddies. The fight basically involved sonic freeing his friend from the robot he was stuck inside. The forest buddy would then explain more of the story to sonic who would go on to free more forest friends.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but there were already 40 comments when I checked this thread
@Matt: Great suggestions. The only part I disagree with you is about using the 4e ruleset. I’m going to write an adventure for Dungeon Magazine, so 4e is implied, but I’ll write at least 2 sidebars about simplifying the rules for younger children… although I’m surprised at how a 7 year old can grasp complex rules. So I’m not too worried.
@D_Luck: I do recall that I absolutely loved rolling dice back then too. And I hear you about the Pixar movie. I have thought about it enough to realize that I don’t have an issue with Violence itself but rather with gratuitous violence.
@Kirk: That’s all right Kirk. I’ve lost track myself. I’ve read all comments but was unable to answer each and every one of them.
Your suggestion is a good one too. Have ‘friends’ be stuck inside a construct that must be beat to save them is a good concept.
For kids, I would work on simplifying the rules. Make sure that your game has more to offer than just “Let’s Pretend with Daddy (Or Mommy)”. Kids tend to roleplay without rules already..the addition of a rules structure is what makes RPGs..what they are.
As for plots, you can go fairly complex or simple. After all, kids do comprehend what’s going on (at least on surface value) in movies like Star Wars or shows like Batman. There’s certainly subtext for adults, but kids like that sort of stuff too.
On violence, I never had a problem with it, although I see why a lot of adults these days do. Other than professional soldiers or similar careers, childhood is probably the most violent time of any person’s life.
This is a period when your only claim to rights/power/resources (Be it food, playground space, or attention) isn’t defended by laws or rights, you’re pretty much relying on your own raw wit, strength and charisma to get what you want or need. That, and a caring parent. Violence speaks to children because it’s simply so very present in their daily lives. There’s actually very little to stop that school yard bully from beating you into the ground when no one’s watching except yourself. (And let’s face it..D&D kids are probably going to be facing more than one of those in their lifetime..)
I’ll be throwing around labels for a second, but just to make things quick and clear. I see that a lot of this anti-violence stuff stems from apologetic Americans that think their media is responsible for crimes and such. Honestly, that’s kind of ridiculous notion. In European and Asian countries it’s a much rarer thing. Certainly excessive sex fueled-Tarentino style violence is probably inappropriate for children, but I’ve never heard of anyone fussing over kids watching Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan or Looney Toons.
Violence is a fact of life, and being aware of it in any capacity is a valuable lifeskill. Ignorance of violence is just ignorance. Pacifism and self-control require an explicit acceptance and rejection of violence. It is ineffective without knowledge.
not really related but… i wish my dad was as cool as you when i was a kid.
@Luthar: Thanks, I hope my children see it that way when they grow up. 🙂
I recently played the DnD 4E Beginners box set scenario with my son,7 years old, and his buddy from the neighborhood, 10 yers old. Besides pulling some punches and not really trying to batter them, I played an “easy” game with them. All I wanted was for them to see the mechanic of the game. Every time they hit I let them explain what happened. There were some graphic moments but no more graphic than when I played Cowboys and Indians as a youngin’ and shot the injun between the eyes! Killing a bad guy is “human nature,” butchering innocents is vulgar. The lesson of the game is teamwork, even if it kills the bad guy.
( Cool site , by the way. I heard of you from The Tome show. . . )
I have been running a game for a group of nine to eleven-year olds (we started on my son’s 10th birthday) for a while now. Given that the violence is only as graphic and gory as you make it I have not had an issue with combat so far. My main concern is to keep things moving fast enough so that the mechanics do not get in the way and to challenge each participant. That second part is because I see D&D as being a haven for smart (and thus almost inevitably geeky) kids.
Running a good game for kids is just like running a good game for anyone, except that they are a bit less patient, you get very direct feedback and table rules are key. If you have a group of rambunctious kids round the table you need run-around breaks every hour and plenty of snacks.
I suggest that in your presentation you emphasise practical support for parents engaging in this complex, and for them perhaps novel, task and some notes on which skills (letting others talk, taking your turn, respecting creative ideas, reading complex text, maths and probability) come into play when.
Kids also come in the flavours we know, minimax, rules-lawyer, storyteller etc. They are not just miniature adults but they are also not alien beings…
I agree that pacing is paramount in running a games for kids. Also their capacity to focus on the game for extended periods of time will increase with their age. While there are exception, I’m willing to bet that it would be easier for a group of 10 year olds to play a 5 scenes session (with a few breaks) than with a group of 6-7 yo.
The group I played with had mostly 9-10 year olds – played for over 3 hours without a break (which I did not anticipate).
One of the players was younger (7 or 8 year old), she needed “run around” breaks near the end, but she did not want us to pause the game for that.
I find it hard for larger groups (5+) to challenge each player individually in a single session (no matter what age they are).
.-= Eric Maziade´s last blog ..Another alternative to Paizo’s Combat Pad =-.
I’d start kids with adventures that do not have combat. Not because combat is bad, but because it is so easy. Better to first train the kids to think about NPCs as potential sources of information, allies, or hidden threats. Only later introduce the “these monsters are evil, always kill them” type of NPCs.
Here’s an example.
http://davidvs.net/rpg/adv-gold-object-keep.shtml
I just started playing 3.5e with my ten year old son last weekend. We both had a great time with just a few adjustments.
First off, the game group involved were all family. They included my sister and her husband, my two 15-year-old and my 10-year-old sons. Other than a few initial mistakes, the game session went well and everyone had a good time.
My mistakes included:
no pre-generated character for the 10-year old
Assuming he knew the “rules”
Playing late – 11:00
What worked:
Different voices for each NPC – including a grunting Ogre, helpless rescued farm girl, and CA surfer “dude” general store attendant
Problem solving
High level of visual description (i.e. dark, dank, smelly dungeon)
Sticking with monsters I knew he’d recognize
Most of what did not work was all me and could have been avoided. I’d asked the wife if he could play 1/2 an hour before we left. She said yes, so it was a go. I hadn’t planned on him playing, so I hadn’t really thought it out especially bed time.
We had a time of getting going and in order to speed things up I created a general store NPC that evolved into a surfer dude halfling that basically told him what he’d need for an adventure and sold it to him for a decent price all on the pretext of closing the shop “to catch some waves”. From there the voices continued and kept both him and the rest of the party entertained while keeping them moving forward.
The only thing he really remembered the next day was the voices and falling on a giant centipede and killing it. He had me relay both of them to my wife several times the next day. Needless to say, now she is interested in playing. I thought that would never happen.
That’s a great story especially the part where your wife might be convinced to join.
I suggest that next time you arrange something at home and slightly earlier and let him drive the adventure and see where he sends it.
I love reading stories like that!