Previously in this series: Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.
Bombs Away!
As the rounds wore on, the fight started stabilizing. Minions fell but were steadily replaced from the factory (I rolled how many (1-2) and what kind of minions arrived each turn) and while the PCs knew how to stop the influx by crashing the factory’s gate down, they could not manage it in their current state.
(I eventually stopped adding more when the challenge factor started outweighing the fun one.)
The Titan Clank hit by the Avenger’s abjure undead power was eventually bloodied. In a cloud of greasy smoke, it stopped functioning and let out a badly battered undead humanoid made of mismatched stitched parts! It was wearing some sort of military leather harness filled with poisoned knives!
It was dispatched in one hit.
In the round where Wrath of Melora (Eric’s Avenger) played Tarzan with the crane, the Claw moved over Yan’s Holy Clank and yanked him up in the air, suspending him 20′-30′ over the floor, nerfing his ‘Stream of life” and ridding the board of one healing effect for some time. I was aware of what I was doing, applying extreme pressure on both PCs and players like I rarely had.
The Claw held Yan’s PC over the same spot for one round. Stef thought he could free him with a Druid forced movement power but turned out to be a misunderstood application of it. When Yan’s turn came, he chose to do nothing, which surprised me…(or I might have forgotten what he did). I’m sure he’ll enlighten us in the comment.
When the crane turn’s came up, a large rumbling was heard as 2 metal cover retracted from a pool of fuming acid at the other end of the battlemap. The crane swiftly moved to bring Holy Clank about 80’ up over the pool and dropped him!
Chatty: Okay so 80 feet, divided by 2 for falling in liquid is 4d10 of damage, plus (clatter) 26 pts of acid, for about 50 something damage
Yan: I’m bloodied.
Chatty: Okay, it’s your turn now, you take 4d10+6 damage (clatter, clatter) that’s another 20-gibbery points (I forget the details)
Yan: WTF? I’m down!
At that point, Yan started grumbling about not being able to do anything now to get out of the pool as statistically, if a fellow PC healed him every round, he stood a very good chance of going back in negatives every round just by being in the pool. He was 100% right, and I was already working out how the acid could have an attack roll…
However, I rapidly decided to stand by my DMing decision. The pool thing was mostly me using rule 42 and improv based on a late prep idea I hadn’t fleshed out. I wanted players to focus on the available encounter elements to save their fellow PC rather than ret-con it.
I instead made use of the Cluebat and asked Mike for an insight check, which revealed that the Crane’s claw was still over the pool and that Vorian (Mike’s monk) was within walking distance of the crane’s controls. Mike figured the controls out pretty rapidly (I use Thievery and Dungeoneering as Technical and Engineering skills in this campaign) and fished Holy Clank out of the acid and dropped him right beside the remaining titan.
On the next round, Mike tried, and failed, to catch the Titan with the crane (which would have been very cool).
The Titan cause one last round of mayhem, knocking Mike away from the crane’s controls (reverting control back to me) and dealing some more damage.
Eric: Hey, what are all those circles on the map right by the Titan and us?
Chatty (remembering them, and hatching one last idea): Oh that. They’re iron drums filled with something that has strong tar-like smell. They’re difficult terrain!
Eric: Zzzzz.
The titan fell (finally!) and the players starting getting ready to mop up the undead crew and the few remaining minions (it was 10h45 PM by then). When the Crane turn’s came, I triggered the last trick.
Chatty DM: Going all Michael Bay on you, the crane’s positions the metal claw over the pile of drums and drops it. The drums spilt and spill some tar-like liquid all over the place. As the claw hits the wrecked drums in slow motion, sparks fly up, creating a huge explosion…
Once the smoke cleared, the druid was on fire, the undead crew were burnt crisps and the fight was over within minutes.
Awesome, if tiring game.
Lessons Learned
- I’m now convinced that nothing sort of a statistical disaster will cause a seasoned 4e player group to fail a ‘hard’ combat encounter. Optimized builds, power synergies and team work will consistently “beat the system”.
- I realize that not many group get to that level in 4e and that many DMs play a LOT dirtier than me by focusing all damage on one-2 PCs.
- Maximizing damage outputs, multiplying threats, planting surprises and screwing with the players’ game plan has addressed the ‘not-challenging enough” vibe we had in my game. Will fiddle with it a bit and try not to overdo it.
- Interactive elements rule complex encounters. While the Crane stole the show, it did in the hands of both the PCs and the DM.
- There’s something wrong with the Monk. Mike, Yan and I have worked to make it better. I look forward to the PHB3 to see it complete with its feat and magic items.
- A fight without Stun/Daze is refreshing. I’ll use them, but in very controlled bursts in the future.
Player feedback bonus
During the evening, I got one of my best pieces of feedback ever from Franky
You know Phil, if we can get about 1 hour of exploration/roleplaying /story per session and the rest as combat, I’m sure everyone around the table would be satisfied. You can do a lot of fun story stuff done in one hour and then we can also enjoy the cool crunch of the game.
Thanks Franky, I could not ask for a better defined, simple formula that distills our combined gaming styles. I’ll make sure that future games follow this formula (or subverts it deliciously).
I’m truly blessed among DMs.
So what do you think awaits in the Factory-Mine? My next session is prepped but not my final one, I’m open to suggestions.
Thanks for reading.
@Phil I had delay. Anyway their was nothing I could really do beside trying to break free and fall 40 feets.
The reasoning was that beside dropping me (which I was confident to survive) there was little it could do worse and at the least I could access the situation then and not have totally wasted my turn… Well that was just before you open a fuming pit of acid, but even then I thought I had a good chance to survive.
I was definitely not expecting to have 12d10+12 worth of damages without me having the time to react. Making me lose my comfortable 80 points of life… 😛
As for the monk like I said to you it sound like a good class with multiple target or in a small group. That and Mike is not lucky with is roll.
Wow, Franky – that’s golden! (and it feels so obvious too, now that I know it 😛 … makes me wonder how come I didn’t figure that out before).
Also, great Michaelbaying here, Phil 🙂
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@Yan: Don’t blame Mike – the monk class itself makes the dice fumble! (at least, it did in 3.5)
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@Yan: Yeah, but 40′ was ‘only’ 4d10 but I hear ya… had it been your Barbarian, you’d have likely broken free… then again breaking free scrapped the Standard action so I see what you mean.
Next time, terrain/traps that deals massive damage will have an attack roll and will at worse, deal 1/2 damage on a miss.
@Eric: Sometimes the obvious hits us in the face really hard. As for Mike, Yan is right… the encounters we’ve had so far have not been advantageous to Mike. I tend to replace standard monsters for special “Elites” and/or Terrain features/traps.
Plus by making the gatling bots fly, I nerfed the melee guys (who really need to stock up on ranged weapons, if only to help deal with minions when immobilized)
Which reminds me that my players should have a lessons learned to:
1) Explore the environment more with Free Action Skill checks early in the fight.
2) Review equipment to deal with likely threats of Paragon level, of which flying and incorporeal is a reality.
@Chatty: Yeah… range weapons… the PHB does suggest players to equip with both range and melee weapon!
My single-tracked mind when I prep made me forget to challenge the PC’s shortcomings most of the time.
Yet, having a melee enemy attack the ranger-with-a-bow or blocking a melee guy while ranged critters shoot has always cause fun and excitement in combat. (It did the one time I accidentally did it :P)
Even if they’re not properly equipped, I’m sure you’d have the skill to provide them with enough material that they could McGuyver their wait out of it…
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I lol’d when you described the stiched-together undead coming out of the Titan. How it had poisoned knives. And went down in one hit. That sounds like a really fun encounter, and there’s some really, really, really good bits of information to be had there. I love how all those fun elements made it in, made it a challenge, and still made it fun.
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I”ve been looking at Alchemicals in Adventurers’ Vault this morning and some are really worth looking at as ‘replacement for used-up powers’
Since I’m planning to ditch treasures and money altogether in Gears of Ruin, I may propose players that they all have a “5-slot potion belt” filled with near-level items at hand per adventure, and can restock if the situation calls for it.
I can already see little clockwork bombs and ‘USB keys’ for the PCs life-watches…
@Andy: Yeah… I ruled the skirmishers to be bloodied when they exited the Clank and, at 27 hp or so, fell to the Avenger and 4d10+6 explosions pretty easily.
This combat was a great demonstration of what I had been writing and talking about in the last few months about complex encounters. It really was worth the work I put in it. 🙂
@Chatty: Yes – they just need to go to the Clank Cave and gather all the ClankTech they need – they can be secretly sponsored by Ratchet Industries – a corporation owned by one of the PCs relatives, but controlled by an evil conglomerate.
Hey! I think I might’ve found the setup I was looking for for my next game with the kids!!!
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@Eric: I’d charge you but I think I already owe you a lot for services in keeping this blog (and my old one) alive. It seems I get indebted with IT and engineers a lot.
I’ll help you flesh this out at a beer/lunch/dinner soon.
@Phil breaking free is a move but falling would result in me being prone (move again to stand up)… Anyway with the info I had at the time, it seamed the best course of action. Had I known about the damage of the acid I would have broken free. I was expecting some ongoing(save ends) damage between 10 or 15 for the acid… 😉
@Yan: I hear ya. Limited info and all. It’s really cool to screw with the mind of a tactician. I promise not to do it every game. 🙂
Great stuff, Sounds like one insane battle. I appreciated the Undead minion going down in 1-Hit. I’m all about flavour and cool monsters, but nothing beats the reaction of my players when they kill something deadly or menacing before it can act. Many DM’s i know will keep cool things on the board so they can at least get one shot of awesome off.
Also, Michaelbaying is awesome. Large explosions and massive over the top events are what i believe to be one of the most overlooked aspects of Dnd. i think of it as Cutscenes for RPG’s. Just beware of Timburtoning, that can get creepy.
Finally, i got rid of Money and XP around a year ago and found that a ‘Wealth’ skill to replace money has been very useful. Obviously the higher the skill level the higher the amount of wealth they have access to. This has led to some interesting encounters, involving bribing guards and an assassin. Haggling with an innkeeper to lower his price with Diplomacy to decrease the Wealth check needed. As a skill i’ve found it really useful and entertaining and my players no longer just throw money ‘points’ at equip and what not, with money becoming more intergrated within the campaign and my prep ideas. Just an idea i thought i would share
Thanks Chatty
Scott
I’d really like to see a well-fitting skill challenge worked into the finale.
Thanks for the posts.
I think the crane should almost fall into the Rule of C4, that giving the party control of an element that is capable of greatly effecting the environment / story (such as the crane) is always a fun thing for players.
@Scott: Thanks, can you believe the undead wasn’t a minion? But then again, a bloodied lvl 14 skirmisher is for all intents and purposes a minion against an Avenger.
I really love explosions in D&D, in 4e they are so much more easier to play than in other games I played (Gurps’ law of inverse squares anyone?), so what if energy always explodes in cubic volumes and dissipates instantly. I’m sure there’s a calculus 3 problem in there somewhere.
@ismael: Working on it! I’m toying with making the whole exploration of the factory/mine/foundry into a bigass Skill Challenge.
@Bartoneus: Yes, definitively a Rule of C4 moment right there! In our case, it’s clear I enjoyed the Crane a bit more than the other kids I fought with in the sandbox. 🙂
Your talk of USB keys for the watches made me think of the Dollhouse finale and how they would upload various “packages” depending on their immediate mission. With the tech based nature of the world, you could have items that let them swap out daily or encounter powers by spending, say, a standard action to load, then they get to use up their power slot with a power different than what they normally have.
And with more Dollhouse inspiration, you could have a bad guy that could remotely program or wipe their powers, or maybe just “block” the use of encounter or daily until the PC makes a save.
Hey Chatty,
I feel the same way you do about good players being able to breeze through tough encounters. Last week, I ran my group through three hard level encounters and one normal encounter. No one came close to dying in the hard encounters, and I don’t think the normal encounter cost them more than a few healing surges. I’m still not sure whether this is the way the game is intended to run, or if this is something that you only run into with groups of experienced players.
More importantly, it was still fun, and I’m not sure the battles seemed so easy from the other side of the screen. Perception plays a big part of the game for the players. If something seems tough, even if it isn’t, and they defeat it, then they think that they came through a big challenge. I think that’s one of the reasons that using a lot of Bay-style special effects makes combat more fun. Question is: how tough do you need the combat to be before it actually seems like a challenge?
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@Dean: That’s exactly where I got the reference from. I had seen the finale the day before. 🙂 You know, having downloadable powers, as daily magic items, allowing to swappable powers is absolutely genius.
And while I would never steal powers from players (that’s anti-4e in my opinion), the “can’t use dailies of X-level” (Save-ends/until end of next turn) is definitively something I could go for.
I had a question about the comment about good players being able to breeze through encounters. Is this also a partial product of the level they’re at? I mean you need to have good teamwork, but being paragon level makes a big difference. In every edition of the game so far, players getting through encounters easier is usually a result of them having more options and thus opportunities to synergize.
At first level, you only have 2-3 encounter/daily powers. The combinations there are fairly limited. If you get stuck in a bad position, the options for getting out of it are limited.
Now hit 10th level- you’ve got 3 dailies, 3 encounters, 2 utility powers and various magical items. Yes the monsters are tougher and have more special effects. The players can have a good half dozen 2 player combos set up, and a few multiple character/multiple round combos as well. When things get hairy, there’s always a power or two to let you catch your breath, get out of the fighting or put you back on your feet right away.
Does this fit anyone else’s experience?