With Player’s Handbook 3 on the horizon and all the classes revealed in some way, Bartoneus asked which one you were most looking forward to. Everybody wants to be kung-fu fighting, those Monks are fast as lightning (even if it’s a little bit frightening), they came in first with expert timing. Battlemind style came in second, and the yet to be revealed Runepriest is third. Ardents, those most psionic of leaders, fell flat.
While reports leaked out ahead of time, it was the D&D Experience convention where a full announcement was made about a new edition of the Gamma World RPG, based on the 4e D&D rules. During the announcement came one major surprise: they would make random “booster packs” available to supplement the mutations that happen in the radiation soaked Gamma World and the ancient technology that waits to be discovered. As soon as I heard about a collectible component, I leaned over to the people sitting with me and whispered “gamers are going to lose their shit.”
The economics of producing and stocking games is complicated, to say the least, and often seems like the part that consumers easily misunderstand. In producing a game and getting it onto store shelves, there’s the costs to make it in the first place (which vary wildly due to the number you’re making), distribution costs, variety of SKUs that retailers stock… and so on and so on. All of these factor into the decision to make a game random/collectible, as well, of course, as a way to make more money.
Wizards of the Coast, if you’ll recall, pioneered the random/collectible model in gaming with Magic: The Gathering, and eventually brought it to D&D miniatures, a model that refuses to die (one other announcement was bringing back the total blind miniature boxes).
Now, there have been other CCG/RPG fusions before, but probably nothing with as much exposure as Gamma World. As I predicted as well, many gamers have not reacted well. Even Bill Slavicsek had this to say about it to defend it:
The boxed set comes with plenty of cards, but for players and Gamemasters who want to expand their options and add to the wackiness, a random booster set will be available for just that purpose.
To dispel some of the rumors that followed the announcement at D&D Experience, let me state this clearly: D&D Gamma World is a roleplaying game. The cards add a random element that is built into the game play, but it is in no way a collectible trading card game. It uses dice and all of the basic D&D RPG rules, with the added element of random cards to reflect the random mutations and technological discoveries that have always been a part of the Gamma World mythology.
So let’s pose the question to you, dear readers…
[poll id=”154″]
For me personally, I was a big Magic player, and a big player of a number of other CCGs, and have bought D&D mini boxes (and some Mage Knight) since the games came out. I almost never have a problem with collectible elements in games except when it seriously impacts my ability to play the game (i.e. the game is sold pre-crippled). From getting to play in a playtest of Gamma World, I know this won’t be the case with that game, though I can see people getting that impression. So what do you think?
I like them when they’re CCGs. I played a lot of CCGs in my day, and I generally like CCGs.
I’d rather they not intermingle with RPGs though. In fact, I only really tolerate them in CCGs because they are inevitable and have always been that way – I rather hate random purchases, and I usually buy decks and singles. I very much wouldn’t have liked it if back in 09 we had arcane power or player’s handbook 2 released as a booster set instead of a book with a one-purchase ready-access to all their contents. By the way, I also hate other collectible aspects of the RPG right now, such as random booster minis. But I wasn’t thinking of buying Gamma World even before I knew about the random cards.
.-= Wyatt Salazar´s last blog ..What the heck is N.A.A D6? =-.
Wyatt: Why is that? I mean, I understand your example (in fact, I was a bit pissed off when they announced new powers in the Player’s Handbook Hero mini boxes), but a complete no-go mixing? It makes total sense to me in GW.
Since this is obviously not required for the core experience I do not take issue with it. Much like minis and dungeon tiles I do not mind a bit of random if it is not required. I would like to see a dollar come off the price tag, but I guess we will have to see the quality of the final product.
Because for a CCG, I can tolerate this because it’s grandfathered in. It’s just the way it’s always been. I have always had to deal with the frustration of pulling “Crappy Common I Already Had, Thrice Over” from my random pack. Usually it’s not cost much because M:TG is dirt cheap where I’m from. But it’s cost me in consumer sanity. But it’s just the way CCGs are.
In RPGs, usually when I want to buy supplemental material, I don’t have a random chance of getting some or all the supplemental material in a particular expansion. Like I said, there isn’t “Arcane Power: The Booster Set” it’s just Arcane Power. I just buy a book, and it’s there. It works this way for every other game, except maybe that new Warhammer – and actually, that one also gives you all the cards in a set, if I recall, when you buy the set, not random. Or a PDF. If Gamma World doesn’t tank, there’ll likely be all manner of ways to subvert this distribution strategy – a secondary market for singles, or those nasty pirates scanning everything as usual, or in a merciful world, DDI just giving you the dope.
I just really dislike the random blind distribution. I deal with it in CCGs because it’s what it’s always been, and even there, I can subvert it.
I don’t really care that they do it, and I’m not going to froth on forums about how Wizard’s is stealing my money. I know why they did it, because, and with good reason, they don’t think they can justify Gamma World without some way to get more money out of it. Sensible, given what it is – a game essentially about monkeycheese. And I can even, in a vague way, see how this fits with the theme of GW.
Funny enough, I don’t see this as mixing CCG with RPGs, either. I see it as using a marketing strategy designed to extract loads of money if I want the supplemental material. Now, if this was an RPG that was designed as an honest-to-goodness CCG mix, with CCG rules, CCG combat, CCG everything yet mixed with RPG elements from the ground up, not just one with that’s 4e with a random stack of little power cards, it’d be interesting, and I’d be lining up. I couldn’t tell you, right this instant, what something like that would like or play, but I’d know it when I see it. To me GW isn’t really a CCG-RPG mix.
As it stands it’s just a way to get more money out of less stuff in what is otherwise a seemingly ordinary RPG. And there’s nothing wrong with it. But I think people have good reasons for not wanting to buy the (thankfully) supplemental random blind booster packs.
.-= Wyatt Salazar´s last blog ..What the heck is N.A.A D6? =-.
Keep in mind, it’s totally playable without the random CCG element. That random CCG element is simply for you to basically make your own deck to draw mutations from, a deck that presumably favors you more than the DM’s deck.
.-= Andy´s last blog ..The Journey System: Core Stats =-.
As I said previously, I’m aware of that.
.-= Wyatt Salazar´s last blog ..Some of them could actually be people. =-.
I want them, but to explain why I’ll have to ask a question or two.
1) Where can you buy Magic:the Gathering and other CCG booster packs?
Answer: Bloomin’ everywhere!
2) Where can you buy D&D?
Answer: Ummmmm. An FLGS (if you’re lucky enough to live in travelling distance), a decent bookstore (maybe), online (yay Amazon!). That’s about it.
Role-playing is a niche hobby sold in niche locations. CCGs are a niche hobby that’s become a mainstream hobby because they’re sold everywhere from gas stations to corner shops to toystores to supermarkets to…… well, you get the idea.
Adding a CCG element to D&D is a no-brainer in terms of market penetration. Just like WoTC did with Star Wars, I see Gamma World’s inclusion of the CCG element as a test-the-water thing; if it works, then we’ll be seeing collectable D&D cards with monsters, powers and treasure soon afterward. Heck, if they could fit a single Encounter with map onto a card (Put them together, make an adventure! Collect them all!), I’d buy it!
Why? One word: distribution. Shops that just don’t have space on their shelves for a slow-selling pile of books will happily take a box of booster decks and stick it right under their customers’ noses (or, more accurately, their customers’ kid’s noses) at the checkout. It’s the “I Want” factor all covered in shiny gold foil. WoTC/Hasbro already has that distribution channel set up thanks to M:tG. They’d be fools not to use it to get kids into D&D. And whatever you might think; WoTC aren’t fools.
So yes, I want, because they’ll bring new players to the game.
.-= greywulf´s last blog ..Lazy Sunday Render Dump =-.
This seems to be a non-factor for people that have cost concerns. Just find the rules of the booster card you want, make a proxy, and have at it.
Just like in CCGs. The RPG model reminds me a lot of comic books (actual comics, not movies based on them), it seems like the industry has a hell of a hard time expanding past its core. WotC is trying to broaden its market share. Not sure if it will work, but bravo for trying.
I have to say, this Gamma world idea actually does sound kinda cool, but I’m already wondering about certain meta-game logistics. Suppose I’m playing in a game and I love CCGs and buy a crap load of these boosters. If another player at the game gets slapped with a mutation or finds some sort of lost tech, does he draw from my cards too? Will the decks be solely up to the DM? If not, I could easily see a player stacking his decks to chiefly benefit him. The main reason I’m thinking about this is that the most equitable way to handle the game play would be for everyone who wants to to contribute cards to the deck, but then everyone has to sit down and make a list of all their cards so they can get them back after the session is over. So as a game play element, this does sound kinda awesome. But as a logistical matter? Potential chaos.
Actually, just had an epiphany… If it’s not just a random draw, but instead that you accumulate mutation “points” and/or tech “points”, and these cards have variable costs, then it might just work… But this would then lose A) the randomness of the mutations and B) the potential of flat out bad mutations (as opposed to mixed blessing mutations)
Just to chime in….I’ve been looking up old D&D books and actually read the old Gamma World stuff fairly recently. When I heard they were re-releasing it with 4th edition rules…meh. Sounds cool, but it’s not got that magnetism that means I kick my regular gaming group in the head so they try something new. Hearing they’ll be distributing random mutations/technology via booster packs? This fact alone made it all come together and sink it’s little terrible radioactive claws into my brain..
Yeah, I’m weak. But something like that just gets to me.
Though again, it’s nothing new to regular 4th Edition folks. Really, if you play 4th edition then you’re already playing a game with cards you can buy to get special powers for your character. (Sort of) We were chatting about this when the PHB Heroes mini sets came out and each one had cards with special attack/utility powers only available in the set. Of course, back then the Character Builder wasn’t updating as regularly and it’s less a big deal now, but if your gang was like mine, there was a period of time where new powers kept popping up and even book-completionists didn’t know about them because they didn’t get the cards. Who knows…maybe the Gamma stuff will be like that. Just variety in a more collectible package. I don’t know but it makes sense.
-Jared
Follow-up: Holy crap, mostly nevermind, what I said has already been covered! Sorry for not checking back with you Critical Hits guys for a while now…I’m shocked at the volume & quality of comments you guys are getting these days. :thumbs up:
:goes back to his art-filled spiderhole of isolation:
Sounds like a good business model to me – all the better since the collectable aspect is optional. I think 4E has handled that pretty well so far.