Hi there. My name is Rob, a.k.a. “A Hero”, from A Hero Twice A Month. While I can be a chatty DM at times, I am not the ChattyDM. Still, he was nice enough to let me post my thoughts about crafting items while he is off on his GenCon hiatus.
When the game designers at Wizards of the Coast decided to trim the skill list down from more than thirty-six skills in D&D 3E to a mere seventeen in D&D 4E, it was inevitable that many skills would not make the cut. Most of them were simply rolled into more general skills, like Hide and Move Silently being combined into Stealth. This makes sense to me since I always felt the skill list in D&D 3E was a bit bloated.
Notably absent from the D&D 4E skill list is the Craft skill. To some extent this makes a lot of sense, since Craft was more of a background skill which rarely came up in adventuring (barring the occasional use of the Fabricate spell). Still, I think it is a shame it is gone. There is something nicely thematic about a dwarf forging his own weapons or an elf crafting additional arrows during the time between adventures.
The need for a crafting mechanic is even more necessary if you look at the creation of magical items. According to the Player’s Handbook, Mountain Armor is created when “Dwarf armorsmiths combine the elemental earth of their mountain homes with other metals to craft this heavy armor.” A wonderful bit of flavor text which adds a lot to the feel of the suit of armor.
If you look at how it would be created in game though, the process is somewhat disappointing. Let’s say you want to create Warplate Mountain Armor +3. First, you buy Plate Armor. Then acquire 17,000 gold pieces worth of Alchemical Reagents or Residuum. Cast the Enchant Magic Item Ritual and touch the item. Presto, you now have Warplate Mountain Armor +3!
It is just not quite the same, is it?
I have found that skill challenges can be used to add a little of this flavor back without completely rewriting the rules. While it may seem odd at first, skill challenges were created to determine the success or failure of non-combat situations. So it helps to look at different types of crafting simply as different types of skill challenges.
So how do you go about creating an appropriate skill challenge for the item being crafted? Like any skill challenge, it is just a matter of determining the Setup, Level, Complexity, Primary Skills, and Outcome.
Designing a Crafting Skill Challenge
Setup
To craft an item, the character needs the appropriate tools and raw materials. Appropriate tools could be as simple as fletching knives to make a bow or could be as complex as needing access to a dwarven forge for the aforementioned Mountain Armor. Raw materials have a cost equal to half the purchase price for mundane items. Magic items still require the components for the Enchant Magical Item ritual. However, the item is treated as two levels lower on the magic item price chart.
Level
Level is equal to the items level. Mundane items are generally considered level one.
Complexity
- Horseshoes, Shovels, and other basic items.
- Simple Weapons, Military Weapons, Heroic Tier Armor, and most Heroic Tier magic items.
- Superior Weapons, Paragon Tier Armor, and most Paragon Tier magic items.
- Epic Tier Armor, and most Epic Tier magic items.
- DM’s discretion. This level may be needed for exceptionally complex magic items like the Apparatus of Kwalish.
Suggested Primary Skills
Crafting Metal Armor/Weapons: Athletics, Endurance
Crafting Bows/Crossbows/Arrows: Nature, Perception
Crafting Cloth/Leather Armor: Nature, Endurance
Additional primary or secondary skills should be chosen based on what is being crafted. For example, Eladrin armor would likely have Arcane as a secondary skill because of the Fey origin of Eladrin.
Outcome
Success allows you to craft the item for the reduced cost in materials listed above. Failure causes you to waste half of the necessary materials.
Example: Crafting a Longbow
Setup
Appropriate bowyer tools and 15 GPs worth of materials. Each roll requires one hour of time.
Level
As a mundane item, a longbow is level one.
Complexity
2 (Requires six successes before three failures)
Primary Skills: Nature, Perception
Nature (moderate DCs): Carving a bow requires insight into how to bring out both the strength and suppleness out of the wood.
Perception (moderate DCs): A flaw in the wood has been the downfall of many a bow. Perception allows you to avoid these errors. However, no more than half of your successes can come from perception.
Insight (hard DCs): Many elves believe that carving a bow is a spiritual matter. If you make a successful insight roll at the beginning of the challenge, you can gain a +1 bonus to all rolls during this challenge. This roll can only be made once. If multiple people are assisting they can each make this roll, but it only applies to the rolls they make and does not stack with other characters bonuses.
Special (Elf): Once during the challenge, an elf may use his Elven Accuracy to reroll a skill check. You must use the second roll, even if it is lower. If multiple elves are assisting in the creation of the bow, they may each only use this ability once.
Success
The longbow is created at the reduced cost.
Failure
The longbow is ruined. One-half of the materials are lost.
Example: Crafting Warplate Mountain Armor +3
Setup
Because of the nature of Warplate Mountain Armor, access to a dwarven forge within an appropriate mountain stronghold is required. Raw Materials, Alchemical Reagents or Residuum equal to 9,000 GP are required. Access to the Enchant Magical Item ritual is required, although it can be cast anytime after the armor is completed since the component cost is paid for by the crafting process.
Alternatively, the DM may allow the crafting of this armor by dwarves without the Enchant Magical Item ritual. In this case I recommend dropping the cost by only one level on the chart to 13,000 GP.
Each roll requires one hour of time.
Level
Level thirteen
Complexity
3 (Requires eight successes before four failures)
Primary Skills: Athletics, Endurance
Athletics (moderate DCs): Strength of arm important at the forge.
Endurance (moderate DCs): Working at a forge requires a great deal of endurance. At least two of the successes must come from an Endurance skill check. However, if an Endurance skill check is failed, the next roll made for the skill challenge is at a -2 penalty.
Dungeoneering (hard DCs): Understanding the ways of the mountain are essential to creating mountain plate. A successful Dungeoneering skill check adds a success and grants a +2 bonus to the next Athletics or Endurance Skill Check made for the skill challenge.
Arcane (hard DCs): By sensing the shifts in the elemental forces at work in creating mountain plate, you can cancel one failure incurred. This may only be attempted once during the course of the skill challenge.
Special (Dwarf): Dwarves get a +2 racial bonus to the checks required in making Mountain Armor.
Success
The armor is created at the reduced cost.
Failure
Half of the raw material/component cost is lost and the armor is ruined.
I have been using a 4e house rule (the only house rule I use in 4e, I think) that is my “background skill” house rule where everyone gets to pick one free background skill. Be it weaponsmithing, carpentry, sailor, etc.
Then I use them in Skill Challenges often, as you’ve noted and more. For forging, for sailing through the storm, and sometimes it comes up as a good addition to other skill challenges. The blacksmith wants to use his knowledge of the weak points in metal work to help his buddy break the bars on the gate? Sounds like a perfect example of a +2 to me.
.-= Jeff Greiner´s last blog ..TSP: One Bad Egg pt 3 =-.
Wouldn’t that be insidiously ironic to see Wizard re-introduce Secondary Skills exactly like they did back in the Dungeon Survival Guide? Although now it’s assumed that every PCs has a number of secondary skills that can come into play if the story warrants it.
For some reason I hadn’t considered doing crafting as a skill challenge, I will definitely have to try it out the next chance I get! Thanks!
@ChattyDM: I wouldn’t be surprised by that at all. 🙂
.-= Bartoneus´s last blog ..Inq. of the Week: Non-RPG Content? =-.
I’ve argued since 4e came out that there is no need for a craft mechanic (or perform), specifically because of skill challenges. It’s rare that crafting under duress where the level of success is in question or important actually comes up, and when it does, it’s so much more interesting as a skill challenge using a number of skills the PC possesses, and the players creativity.
I don’t set a hard and fast rule about background skills, it just depends on what the player comes up with. But I don’t think a skilled fletcher, for example, need roll something to manage to create some arrows. That’s what a fletcher does, rolling for it seems kind of weird. “Oh you failed to create arrows despite having created thousands in your past.” or “Despite having worked as a professional musician for years, you failed to play a song on that instrument you sleep with that is like an extension of your body”. I think it’s much more interesting for the bard to use Streetwise and insight to get a feel for the crowd and the area, diplomacy to connect with them, bluff to make it seem likes he’s one of them, intimidate to spin a scary tale, etc.
This is an awesome way of including crafting in 4e. I really enjoy how it enables you to work disparate skills into a craft attempt, such as Insight into bow-making as mentioned above. This feels richer than the original Craft skill in 3.5e because of it. This is going into my campaign.
Rob,
I see you’ve put a lot of thought and creativity into your crafting skill challenge which I can appreciate, I know many people will enjoy these mechanics. But missing craft skills are nothing to lament in my opinion.
I agree, it is thematic for a dwarven adventurer to forge his own weapons, but removal of the craft skills doesn’t prevent the player adding that theme via roleplay. With regard to the creation of the warplate mountain armour, again, role play is where the depth is. I’d much rather hear a player describe the labours of forging steel and using his imagination about the specifics of the ritual than hear the clatter of dice on the table.
Regardless, I enjoyed your post. Thanks.
Hey there. Its great to see the article was so well received. I am glad to see so many people think it will be useful.
@ChattyDM: I haven’t thought about secondary skills in a long time. I will tell you that my wizard was a tanner though. I remember because it was odd enough that I wrote my entire background around that fact
@Thasmodious: I agree that you most of the time I wouldn’t bother making a fletcher roll to make arrows. One reason I kept the system as a series of guideline rather than hard rules is to encourage “common sense”.
@New Zombie: I agree in an ideal world, or is that working with an ideal group, that most of this could be handled through pure roleplay. I know in my group though, a lot of players need a little nudging to roleplay or prefer a little more crunch. I suppose that is the point of skill challenges in general, to add some mechanics to something that could be handled with pure roleplaying.
You will never hear me arguing against pure roleplaying though… I am the type of guy who takes the time to describe what material components my wizard is taking out of his pouch when he casts a spell.
.-= Rob´s last blog ..I posted on ChattyDM today. =-.
I really only played one game of 4e so far and it was some manner of intro dungeon with kobolds. This caused me to look at kobolds in a new light, preferably the searingly brilliant light of a nuke tossed from orbit. But that’s another story…
For the crafting thingy, I’ve noticed in other games that when you casually expand one skill to cover new things you can end up with people who would like to be doing something but couldn’t really find the right place to fill in on their character sheet to do it when they were made. In past editions of D&D or in other games I’d say allow skills that are related but not quite spot-on to do it at a slightly higher difficulty. Maybe even a level check of some sort as a last-ditch catch-all at a suitably high difficulty.
Basically have a backup plan. 🙂
Any of you who read Rob’s blog for any length of time will recognize that I have traditionally taken the view that 4e is often no better than previous editions. In this case, I take the opposite stand. I can think of no game where crafting the magic spear to kill the dragon can be handled with such elegance. Admittedly, it took Rob to identify and set up guidelines for it, but I find it hard to believe that previous editions could come even close to the level of interactivity found here. Now I certainly wouldn’t want to be rolling a skill challenge to make a horse shoe, but maybe I would mind less if I were making horseshoes of speed. The really amazing thing is that this “system” for crafting exists within the rules as is, requiring only some imagination and thought to make it work.
I really like the way you presented your crafting concept. It’s something that was bugging my mind for a little while and it gives me really great ideas.
One thing however that doesn’t fit in my head when I’ve finished reading your post is this: while I know your skill challenge is way better (both in the logic and the RP-fun of it) than a simple Ritual, there is still something missing.
How in the world a mere eladrin or human could forge a Warplate Mountain Armor +3 at a dwarf forge, only requiring appropriate regeants and skill checks? It does not yet explain how that character “knows” how to do blacksmith work. It’s surely not by his understanding of the nature or his good athletics that he can instinctively craft such an armor.
Compare this to a shallow computer user (i.e. my parents or girlfriend) who sit one day and try to get their hands at programming a software using any language (.Net, C, SQL Querys, etc.). Maybe they can get “something” to be done, but no way they can make a decent software.
Long reply, but I like being clear. 🙂 Is there a more logical way we could explain how any character can craft a said magic item? So far, I’d only see someone who had, for example, weaponsmith or blacksmith experience that could craft magic weapons and armors, but not other types of magic item. They sure don’t have the knowledge to work wooden material for magic bows, since it’s not the same area.
Carl, all I think you need to do to incorporate that idea is to expand what skills you’re using during the skill challenge.
For instance, said Warplate Mountain Armor (might as well stick with this since it seems to be the running gag of the post). A Dwarf may know how to construct that from tales passed down within the clan, but how might an Eladrin or a Human craft such a racially stereotypical armor? Perhaps add a number of Knowledge checks to the skill challenge in order to properly sift the pertinent information out of all the stories learned of that race, with a number of successes needed per plus of the armor, or maybe a few Diplomacy checks in order to gain a bit of aid from a sympathetic ally, even down to an Insight check or two to see something in the style of construction that helps you figure out the secret of the process.
As someone that has spent a decent amount of time actually physically crafting things (from various shop classes & a continuing desire to tinker with things), it’s always a learning process in making something, even if you’ve made it time & again, ad nauseum. A new idea pops up, you keep at it time & again until you learn all the tricks & such, & you just get better, or someone walks by & makes an observation you just didn’t think of & suddenly you have a Chocolate & Peanut Butter moment. The more you work at it, the more you can work out in the process of it to get better.
It’s all in how you work the skill challenge system, it can be as complex as you want it to be. Also, just because people can make the checks, there’s no guarantee of them actually hitting the difficulties.
@Carl: This is a great point and I wanted to address it in depth. I would even go a little further then you did and point out that in real life, someone who knows how to program in Java doesn’t necessarily know how to program in assembly language. Or that someone who works with Cisco routers might be stymied in troubleshooting an Intel-based server. So what was I thinking when I assigned Athletics and Endurance to blacksmithing?
A little insight into my thought process. The basic concept for this post came to me when I was listening to the D&D Podcast and heard Mike Mearls talk about “skill halos”. Basically, he said that try not to look at the D&D skill list as narrowly defined skill sets but as broad competencies encompassing a lot of tertiary abilities.
One reason I chose Athletics as a primary for weaponsmithing was that the skill description notes that it is used for tasks which require exceptional feats of strength and I would include working at a forge as one tasks.
You are right that in real life that just being athletic doesn’t mean you are a great blacksmith. However, f you look at what is already included in the Athletics skill, it includes distinct skills like climbing, jumping, and swimming. In real life, an olympic pole vaulter may not even be able to swim. A skilled rock climber may be a horrible pole vaulter. Heck, I used to be on the swim team in high school and I know I am a horrible climber and not much of a jumper. In D&D 4E, a character who takes the Athletics skill will automatically be good at all of those skills.
Still, there are ways to modify the system to take those kind of things into account. As @Jeff Greiner and @ChattyDM mentioned, it may be possible to include some secondary skill system to limit what kind of crafting skill challenges are possible.
At its simplest, you could have every player pick a career they had prior to adventuring. This would open up any skill challenges appropriate to their prior career. What if they wanted to pick up blacksmith skills after the fact? Well, you could have them aquire those skills in game by spending time befriending a blacksmith.
You can also modify the skill challenges I made to address some of your concerns. For example, for the crafting of Mountain Plate Armor, I suggested Dwarves get a +2 to all rolls. You can always change this to be more restrictive. Maybe a Dwarf must be involved in the skill challenge. Maybe ONLY dwarves must be involved in the skill challenge.
In conclusion, I guess I would say I think skill challenges are decent way to resolve crafting in D&D 4e. However, my guidelines presented here may require some tweaking to fit your own style of play. Some DM’s may want to dispense with skill challenges entirely in most situations, and only bring them into play if the players are creating something truly epic. Others may want to restrict them with mechanics like secondary skills or even “crafting feats” that open up very specific types of skill challenges for characters who have them.
Or as As @Tim says, the system can be made as simple or as complex as you want it to be.
.-= Rob´s last blog ..I am glad to be wrong about the Githyanki =-.