When the Monk preview was released a couple of weeks ago, it caused a bit of an uproar in a few ways. I was involved on an email chain between Tonester, Bartoneus, and joshx0rfz about whether or not a non-heavy damaging striker was a good idea and if their mobility could make up for it (short answer: probably not, as damage is always a good idea, and you only need mobility part of the time).
Other people focused on the power source aspect of it: Monks are Psionic. (Yes, “Martial Striker” was half wrong). As per the Design & Development article that accompanied it, Ki is a dead power source (though some third party products have already tried to use it). Personally, I have no problem with this. On multiple occasions, I attempted to run campaigns with an eastern flavor, and banned most (or all) arcane and divine classes, relying primarily on psionic and ki powered characters. Conceptually, they always seemed very close together: an internal energy source with fantastic abilities powered by intense discipline. So lumping them together seemed like an obvious step to me. It also seemed to confirm that Psionics would be a new power source in PHB3.
Then WotC released this:
“Psionic, Divine, and Primal Heroes.” Hmmmm.
I don’t really see the need to introduce more Divine or Primal heroes, but maybe there are some awesome concepts that I can’t think of. Divine seems like it’s more open… already, I’m having trouble justifying the differences between the 4 Primal classes and the flavor of their abilities. What I really hope, though, is that we get 6 Psionic classes. I’ve always loved Psionics (though I recognize that they don’t fit into every game), and I felt like the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook was finally getting them right. Each discipline of Psionics got their own suite of interesting abilities.
In 4e, I’m assuming the different kinds of Psionics are going to get split up into their own classes, which is why I’m hoping that most of the book are new Psionic ones. Here would be my ideal set:
- Telekinetic (Psionic Controller)
- Telepath/Clairvoyant (Psionic Leader)
- Psychometabolist (Psionic Defender)
- Monk (Psionic Striker)
- Soulknife (Psionic Striker)
- Psychic Warrior (Psionic Defender)
Between “reading minds“, “seeing the future“, “moving stuff with your mind“, and “changing your body” you have the classic Psionic archetypes covered, then you can add in some of the interesting D&D adaptations of the concept to round it out. Of course, if PHB3 is any indication, PHB4 will have some more Psionic classes too (alongside a new power source… my bet would be on Shadow) and revisit an original power source.
This also pulls Dark Sun into the clear lead for 2010’s campaign setting too.
Interesting choices, though I’m having a hard time differentiating between your choice of Psychometabolist and Psychic Warrior.
After all, the Psychic Warrior was just a low-powered Psychometabolist with better weapons.
Also, it seems to me like Telepath is a perfect Controller, and we’re missing the boat if it isn’t used for one.
And, just to be contrary once more, I discussed the possibility of the Soulknife with a friend the other day. I am now firmly of the opinion that the Soulknife should not be its own class.
The Soulknife should be a Paragon Path for the Monk.
I mean, what differentiates the two, really? Quick-hitting psionic strikers. Have the level 11 ability be as follows:
Soulknife: You can project a soulknife. Your unarmed strikes now do 1d10 damage.
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I think of the Psychic Warrior as more using Psionics to augment his fighting style rather than doing crazy body-changing. My favorite power (which I would hope would become a class feature) was the power to call a weapon. It might overlap too much with the Swordmage, but I think they could flavor it to be distinct (less focus on energy types, for example).
I went back and forth on the Telepath and could see it both ways. But they need a Leader, and I think the Professor X style team-work leader would be cool. Plus they could be Leader primary Controller secondary.
Soul Knife too has a lot of flavor that was introduced in Expanded Psionic Handbook, with the different manifestations of their soul knife. I could see it either way too, or combine it with Psychic Warrior.
I think the weapon-type powers (call weapon, etc) have already been absorbed by the Swordmage, but are also far less useful in 4e, where disarming is not the norm. I see your point as to the difference, but I also think that both of those concepts are very similar and could be combined easily, with at-wills/encounters doing minor augmentations and daily powers doing crazy stuff. Think of the Warden, and you’ll see what I mean.
Alternately, they could be different sides to a single class, based on your level 1 class feature choice.
Why?
Just like we don’t absolutely NEED a martial controller, we could easily get by without a Psionic leader. And what we really do need are more controller options.
Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Controller was just called the Psion, and was a mix of Telekinetic and Telepath.
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As for the Soulknife, the XPH flavour was primarily “project things from your hands” and “project bigger things from your hands”. Aside from that they got:
– Throw Mind Blade – a monk feat (Telekinetic Punch, or “Candle Punch” as I’ve heard the ability called, for instance) could allow all monks (including soulknifes) to make ranged basic attacks unarmed. Multiple Throw is redundant in 4e, except possibly as a power.
– free enhancements to the mind blade, which would be eliminated in 4e
– up to 1d10 damage, which would be the level 11 ability as I said
– two mind blades, which is redundant if they’re part of the base unarmed attack, as the Monk already has two fists from which to project mind blades
– Weapon Focus, which would be eliminated from the class progression in 4e
– QuickDraw – unnecessary if it’s just a part of the Soulknife’s unarmed attack
– Speed of Thought – monk speed boosts would cover this easily
– Bladewind – one of the PP attack powers
– Knife to the Soul – deals ability damage, easily redone as a daze/stun PP attack power.
– Psychic Strike – the mechanic would be bad in 4e (Spend a move action? As a striker? No.), and doesn’t need to come across exactly. Flurry is a fine substitute.
That’s all of the Soulknife abilities, from level 1-20, and we still have a PP Utility power, a level 16 PP feature, and a level 11 “Action Point” ability free to give it more flavour.
I just don’t think we need two Dex-based psionic melee strikers.
Graham´s last post: Oh my, he’s at it again!
We’re going to see a Psionic Leader. I’d put money on it… though we don’t have a Martial Controller, that point has bugged many (including Bartoneus) and it’s far easier to imagine a Psionic Leader than a Martial Controller.
A Psychic Warrior that augments himself using the power of his mind but still focuses on the blade and armor stands on its own (like the old Kensai among other classes) from the Swordmage’s Arcane different-energy damage schtick.
Soulknife also had some PrCs and other options if I recall correctly that let them bypass armor, do ability damage, and all sorts of other fun stuff. I could easily see fleshing the class out with 30 levels of powers and making it distinct. And it doesn’t need to be Dex based either- I think a strong argument could be made for one of the mental ability scores being primary. (Sure wouldn’t mind Con being used a bit more either, though I know why they don’t).
And yet the Kensai is now a Fighter Paragon Path.
Just saying.
Lessee…
– Fist of Zuoken – a Monk cross
– Illithid Slayer, which they could access, but it wasn’t restricted to them, and was in fact a poor choice for a Soulknife
– Pyrokineticist – fire whip et al
– War Mind – more of a Psychic Warrior concept, really
and that’s all, in the XPH.
Aside from which, all of those things would be redundant in 4e. Ability damage doesn’t exist, and would be replaced by dazing/stunning, which the Monk could also do. Bypassing armour would be attacking Reflex or some other defense, which the Monk does by default.
Sorry, but while the concept is awesome, I just don’t see how it warrants a full class, or how it would be any different, flavour-wise, from a Swordmage or Monk.
But yes, if it was its own class, Dex is not required. It could easily be Int, though that just brings it more to the Swordmage side.
Graham´s last post: Oh my, he’s at it again!
@Monk – When I made my comments about them being weak strikers, I had done so while forgetting to factor in their Fury of Blows (or whatever it is). That does a pretty good job of helping them a little on the damage side of things.
@Psionics – I’m not a big fan of them in a fantasy setting.
@Primal – Probably my favorite power source so far. I absolutely love the flavor and the mechanics. Martial use to be my favorite, but Primal is fun for me.
@Divine – I’ve never been a big fan of Divine classes, but it does seem to be a pretty fleshed out power source in 4E. I’m curious what they can add to it without making other Divine classes seem redundant.
I’m all for WoTC adding stuff to 4E, but I just hope they can do so in a unique and meaningful way. Overall, I think they’ve done a relatively good job (with a couple of exceptions).
Martial Controller:
I was hoping the monk would finally do it, but alas. I’m also hoping for more Constitution-as-Key-Attribute classes and possibly Dex-based classes. One other thing us OCD-stats-symmetry people would love is to see another class (other than Rogue) with +2 on Reflex. (+2 Fort has 2(Barbarian,Fighter), +2 Will has two (Sorcerer,Wizard), also). And in the ideal world, the imaginary Martial Controller would come with +2 to Heal and Streetwise skills(history, endurance and stealth are soooo overdone). =)
Got me thinking of course: Wouldn’t an Assassin/Warrior, or say, specifically, a Shinobi/Ninja-type martial artist fill this role…? Between caltrops, oils, smoke screens, explosions, parries/redirection, grabs/throws in Ninjitsu, hidden traps and hibuki, and (as an ideal controlling weapon) the kusarigama, there is a fair amount of Controlling available in that Martial artist. Not to mention the master of poisons and survival might make a CONS-based class with Heal skill make sense. As a spy, streetwise skill makes sense too (yes, bluff, acrobatics, and stealth would be on the list too). A ninja certainly isn’t a leader of defender; arguably a striker of course; but a Ranger doesn’t control areas with caltrops, distractions and explosions, or litter the battlefield with sleeping blowdart victims.
Just sayin’.