About a year ago, I wrote about player types and motivations. It’s a subject that’s very near my DMing heart because I believe that the recipe of a good campaign lies in understanding your players and catering to their specific needs as much as you cater to yours in your game.
Lately, I’ve been musing about one type of player:
The Instigator: Likes to make things happen and trigger awkward situations
More accurately, instigator players are those who are motivated by:
Making Things Happen: Pushing Buttons, opening doors and start things regardless of the group’s wishes. Pushing the game’s and the gaming group’s limits.
Instigators are a challenge to GMs because subverting the order of the group is part of the fun they derive from the game. When that tendency is known and accepted, it can lead to a highly functional and fun gaming group. However, if the group is having trouble, an instigator can become a nightmare for the GM (and the whole group).
In the last two weeks, I’ve played with two different groups featuring such types of players, my own and another where I was invited to be a guest DM for one session.
In my group, our instigator (who’s also motivated by psychodrama and Butt Kicking) is known to act rashly, or without getting the group’s consent just for the kicks of seeing what will happen. It is almost unavoidable that if the party takes too long to reach a decision, or gets caught in planning paralysis, Eric’s PC will take matters in his own hands and do something about it.
Yet, Eric won’t go out of his way to cause trouble and will honestly try his best to have his PC act faithfully on the beliefs he built into it. Still, when there’s a big Red shiny button, he’ll often crack under the pressure and gleefully jump on it, laughing like a maniac!
I may be using a literary technique called ‘exageration’ here.
In the group where I guest-DMed, the group’s instigator had a reputation of always jumping off the DM’s tracks. I know from talking with the group’s usual DM that the Instigator’s antics is giving him headaches as the group has failed to come up with a good reason to follow the main plot and said instigator sees no incentive for his character to do so.
In fact, I think the group’s social dynamic and the DM’s very laid back style of leadership is acting as positive reinforcement for the Instigator to topple the apple cart whenever he can.
Anyway, in observing these two players, I’ve come to the realization that an Instigator type of player does not automatically translate to a problem player. Instigators play a vital role in a party, if harnessed right.
In a party with no clear goals and where the players are around the table for vastly different reasons (i.e. the motivating factors of each player don’t overlap much), an instigator can cause the game to crash as the player will likely get his/her kicks out of testing how far the group’s boundaries can be stretched.
In fact, much like children, instigators tend to become unbearable if there aren’t any lasting consequences for pushing their luck.
And therein lies my first key point: Instigators aren’t bad players, but they need a framework with defined boundaries and clear negative consequences for crossing those boundaries, both in-game and socially.
Just ask my group what they think about mooning at the game table…
In a party with well established goals and where players are used to each other, an instigator can really shine. If the DM creates adventures where the story will move forward when someone presses the button, or take the forbidden treasure, or kiss the Succubus then the instigator will likely be the one doing it.
Instigators may be known for putting PCs in trouble, but I’ve seen, more than once, that they also excel at saving everyone’s butt by trying that crazy stunt that no other types of players would attempt.
however, do seek out the possible toxic mix of a Selfish Instigator player and get rid of that.
Otherwise, if your ‘make things happen’ player is ready to compromise and keep a lid on it when the party needs total unity, then consider yourself lucky, you’ve got yourself a potential ally to make your adventures fly.
Harness your instigator. Work out with him/her how to marry that style of playing with the interest of the rest of the group. Add buttons, Levers, petty boss-types of NPCs and stupid rules that are begging to be broken. When the instigator helps move the story forward, don’t punish him/her. However, add clear consequences for acting out of line and focus it on the instigator, not the party.
Thus you’ll likely balance the player who will appreciate seeing the game world react to his/her antics.
In fact, if I’m not mistaken, Tracy Hickman is coming out with a Book at Gen Con where he advocates that instigation is a fundamental element of ‘good play’… In fact, I seem to recall Hickman and Monte Cook having vastly different opinions about that!
How about you? How do you deal with instigators? Do you find them to add value to your gaming group or do you think they are more of a liability?
Sound Off!
I think every group has an instigator, though they can come in the button-pushing or ‘deep RP’ styles depending on the type of game you’re running.
Once had an instigator in one of my campaigns who ended up in jail for selling poisons. The jailers had just taken in a pretty powerful creature in a game which was running in the same timeline and the players were aware of each others games.
A jailbreak ensued . . . and now there are over a hundred lycanthropes which pad around in the Imperial Forests, making the location a bit of a wasteland.
Really, I think the best way to get an instigator along is to show both positive and negative consequences, and let them know they’re having an effect. If the style is far too disruptive for the game… well, they can always find a new game after a couple of discussions.
Slainte,
-Loonook.
Loonooks last blog post..Top 10 Roleplaying Tropes I Never Want To See Again…
I play the instigator role often when I’m on the player side of the table. I don’t think it’s a problem at all for us. I’m one of the more experienced and decisive people in my group, and when I’m not DMing, I use the instigator role to pull the rest of the party out of their shells. The other experienced player does the same when he’s playing, because we both recognize that this group we’re in wouldn’t function without someone doing what we do. I know that makes the rest of the group seem lame, but really they’re not. I wouldn’t trade them for anything. They just need a little guidance from the veteran gamers, that’s all.
We have one particular overly caution player in our group. Instigators can be a real gift when it comes to keeping a situation going. While the carefull player is still considering all the bad things that may happen should the button be pushed, the instigator gleefully announces that the button has been pushed and that running for lives is probably a good idea right about now.
Ahah…
I am both laid back and button pushing… I have been hated and loved at the same time… I know sometimes I just cannot stop myself… I actually had the red button once… Almost killed the party…
Now, as GM I have a player who is way worse than me,a rule raper, an attention seeker… He could be hard work but I actually like that… He pushes me in the corner and drags the others along who now are paricipating much more 🙂 all fir the best!
A few years ago, I was playing a 7th Sea campaign with my friends (quick summary: magical pirates). My character was a grumpy woodsman who swings a mean axe and isn’t really too bright, so I was definitely the Instigator there. After a few times, I instituted a new system: whenever my character was about to go crazy and do something, I’d RP it up a bit (he’s fidgety, he’s clutching his axe, he’s muttering), and I’d tell the other players, “Okay, this is your ruckus alert. If you don’t want a ruckus, stop me now!”
And then my character would grab his axe and charge the twenty armed guards surrounding the prince.
There are multiple kinds of instigators.
There is the considerate one, who will put his own security at risk without a second though but will hold back if it would involve the whole group. They are a fine addition to any group, as long as they keep their pants on… 😉
There is the selfish one that will do it without the group consideration. They are harder to manage, but in a group where apathy reigns supreme, he may be a boon that will get things moving. In other group you might have some clash with the more vocal elements of your group.
And there is the one that actively search and goes out of his way to put the group in trouble. Your player will want to kill him in no time and so will you…
How I would deal with them depends mostly on what type and how my group is responding to them. It could variy between nothing, or lead to serious discussion, give a warning/with threat of expulsion to outright expulsion of the game.
All right, good discussions started.
@loonook: Welcome to the blog! Yes, I’m also pretty sure that most group have instigator players that express their play style in different ways. As you say, when actions have coherent consequences, there’s a good chance that making things happen will be well received.
When things go sour because of instigator-type players, it usually means that the player is allowed to do too much at the table and/or you may be dealing with a particularly disruptive type of selfishness.
However, it is also possible that the group just hasn’t found its groove yet and is going through the usual stage of Storming. In such cases, the instigator may be creating discomfort in the group without realizing it.
@xerosided: Interesting point you bring in here:
I’ve heard this from other groups and I agree that with a roomful of passive introverted players, an instigator can become the focus of action and be the pace-keeper to prevent the game from crashing out of general apathy.
@Xypho: Welcome to the blog! I know the feeling. I’ve a pretty strong psychodramatis Instigator streak myself… its actually one of the reasons why I don’t play that much, I know that I would press all red buttons all the time.
In fact, I suspect that GMs are often instigator players. That should be explored further.
@katre: Hey, welcome to the blog! Your example is a great one to showcase how an instigator player can work with his group to make sure that players will know in advance that a button will be pushed, allowing appropriate responses and reactions.
Great example!
@Yan: As we said before, the only truly bad players are the selfifsh one and the ones that just don’t care. I consider myself lucky to have suche a great group… I wouldn’t trade any of you guys! 🙂
My thoughts on the instigator:
1) The instigator keeps me on my toes; if an adventure (or hook) is not appealing to the group, the instigator will almost always be the first to show that lack of appeal through her play.
2) The instigator sets the limit; instigators test the boundaries of their fellow players by rushing into action. How the others respond (an awkward chuckle or a “dude, you could have gotten us all killed”) will show you if your players are at ease with each other and the game you’re running.
3) The instigator is the insta-action button of the group; if your players are discussing way too long about performing some silly action (the equivalent of pushing some button or attacking an enemy), just glance at your instigator once with a meaningful look. Chances are he’ll understand and quickly coerce the group into action.
NB: Your instigator sometimes might be a ruining the game for the others. In a lot of cases, that means that the group can’t handle his personality when gaming, since he isn’t being corrected. I don’t think that correcting should be the GM’s job, since the group should be in balance without GM intervention; unfortunately, the GM is often the one expected to do it anyway.
You’re right, but as DM you often have invest more time in creating/preparing the game and usually your the most interested in a smooth game having invested hours before even the game started. Since you want your player to show up at the next session. In the case where your player fail to reach an agreement if you don’t intervene you risk that player stop showing at the game night. Finding yourself alone with only the player that was causing the commotion in the first place.
In my most recent gaming group, the “instigators” were always selfish. However one would do his shenanigans in such a way that he was usually the only one that could benefit (or get hurt). The other guy had no trouble bringing his troubles back to the party (and often did).
Unfortunately for the rest of the players, our GM absolutely loved to toy with these players to the expense of the rest of the group. No matter what the real focus the rest of us assumed was of high priority in the campaign, our sessions would often get bogged down watching these characters self-destruct. It always came down to how much rope he was going to give them before they hung themselves.
So I guess my point, is that GMs have to be aware when the spotlight lingers too long on these sort of players.
I love instigators… in fact I think I am a type instigator player – my bard had a knack for getting in trouble… whenever he got a bad idea, I skill-checked his wisdom for common sense and would give a few warnings before doing something dumb.
The longer the group stayed indecisive, the more chances there was for my PC to open the gate before checking.
As a DM, I find instigators sometimes rough to handle, but I really love and treasure them 🙂
@Phil:
You mention “selfish instigators” – you’re referring to selfish PCs or selfish players?
My instigator player (who used to be our DM) recently left his selfish PC in the “dungeon reality” realm and came up with a mellower character to play… which I fully expect will be an instigator as well.
I think you’re on to something when you say that you suspect that GMs are often instigator players… I also remember you telling me what kind of player you are… 😛
Eric Maziades last blog post..The Court of the Final Might
Selfish PC or player distinction is rarely an issue. If you, as a person, are not selfish you’ll unconsciously tone down the selfish aspect of your PC when the time ask for team work. Of course this ain’t true if your a psychodramtist in which case you likely jump at the occasion to prove your PC selfishness.
@Yan:
Yeah, I think the non-selfish “hard core” role player playing a selfish PC might prefer to retire is PC and create a softer one than tone down the PC’s personality.
Eric Maziades last blog post..The Court of the Final Might
Maybe you should do a follow-up post — how to deal with the overly cautious, overly analytical player. Mea culpa, I am one of those myself, and it is the 3 sort-of-instigatorish players in the group who sometimes have to dislodge us from the mire I work us into. (Like Chatty, I’m probably exaggerating a bit here, though it’s also possible that my fellow players might disagree.)
In my case, im an instigator player (in fact, im the dreaded Arkanys in Maze DnD group)
From my point of view, i “instigate” to bring realism to the campaign. What i hate the most as a player is the bad habit of having cheesy introduction where you see your DM coming from a hundred miles.
The famous quote : “You walk into a tavern…” kinda make me sick these days. There is more to the story then good old cliche that can be used to have something happen to the players. I like chaos and to improvise. Since i liked to be challenged as a DM, i also like to do the same as a player.
I hate to have a group do a whole college degree on the subject of : is it safe to open this door. In real life, most of us would kick the door and deal with what was beyond it OR we would run screaming to our mama and we would never touch it. But we sure as hell would not spend half a day in front of it wondering how/who/where/what/when.
Of course, when i DM, i might know my campaign setting maybe a bit too well for my own good. And since ive been DM’ing without any sourcebook for many years now, my improvisation skills have saved my skin more times then i can count. I kinda crave the feeling of having a player flabberghast me now and then…. yeah im crazy, i know.
Ive tuned down my char in Maze campaign, not because i wanted to play something nicer, but because i knew that at some point, one of the other PC’s would die by my hand because our point of view was too much of an extreme to be realistic. Not that i wasnt willing to let things reach that point, but the group im playing with isnt into that kind of things, even tho im sure the dark side of Maze would’ve liked it.
In short, i think every good gaming group should have at least one instigator to be healthy, and i sure would like to DM a full group of them anytime.
@ Yan
Yeah, that’s right; exactly the reason why the GM ends up with the correcting job. Also, since correcting other players is a really lame thing to have to do (unless you have a sadistic streak and a love for awkwardness), other players will always pass such responsibilities right on to the organizational driving force of the game; which is – as you argued – the lovely GM. I guess it just boils down to finding the group you are in tune with, and which is also in tune with itself. Like Chatty said; that’s when an instigator is truly valuable (just like every other player type). Looks like you guys really have a good group, and I think that I have too. Let’s count our blessings there!
I also really agree with the selfish player type. A person (psychodramatist) playing a selfish character, but not really that selfish as a person, will be able to take it down a notch with the selfishness if he finds it would REALLY harm the group out-game (often all on a subconscious level). A real selfish person is way too immersed in selfishness to even consider the ramifications of her actions to such an extent.
@Flying Dutchman: Good categorization of Instigator-type players. As for dealing with a problem player, it’s the age old question. You have to take into account friendships, relationships and whatnot. But what it often boils down to is “talk to the player or risk losing your campaign”
@Daeryth: Spotlight hogging is a very real issue. Its especially true when the DM has gotten into the pattern of seeking to be entertained over making the game interesting for all. A selfish DM is very very worrisome.
@Eric: I don’t think that an Instigator PC exists. I think that its a trait/motivation of the player that colors the PCs’ personality. In the same vein, I don’t really buy that a selfless player would chose to play a selfish bastard. Too big a difference between player and PC personalities usually lead to the player’s personality taking over sooner or later.
@Michelle: I probably will, although I must say that I have limited experience with overly cautious players. But I would think that it’s related with an aversion to risk and possibly bad experience with adversarial DMs
Let me sleep on this and I’ll see if it strikes a spark for a future Friday discussion.
@Steve: thanks for showing up. I agree that tired cliches are to be proscribed in games, that,s why I’m a huge fan of ‘in media res’ adventures and building relationships between PCs before we even start to play.
You description of analysis paralysis is something that we found rampant in many of our 3e games where everything would need to be checked for traps and tricks. I’m glad we moved on from that.
I wouldn’t go as far as wanting a group full of instigators, as I prefer a more mixed group. But I hear your preference.
I was a player in RPGs since 7 to 25 years old.
I’ve been a DM since 12 to 34 years old (right now obviously).
When I was playing I was an instigator. I argued alot with my friends while we played because of that. I was simply allergic to slow pacing games.
I found my peace with this side of my personnality the day I permenantly took the DM chair. I’m an instigator DM! You get the picture…
D
As an addendum to my previous comment, let me add that when I or my partner in crime play the role of instigator, we always do so for the benefit of the game as a whole. I would NEVER deliberately derail the DM’s plot in that way, though I might occasionally make them think I might, just to keep them on their toes.
Sometimes I force myself to act the instigator when the group is feeling particularly sluggish, even though I might be subject to the same inertia.
@D_luck: I’ve a similar instigator/psychodrama streak that makes me scared of playing. I become too concerned that I’ll ruin everyone’s fun with my antics and I end up growing frustrated because I try too much to be careful… While I know I could learn to be more trusting of my friend’s abilities to deal with my type of motivation, I found it easier to just keep on Dming.
@xerosided: I gathered as much from your initial intervention. Keeping the GM on his toes is always a good strategy! 🙂
@ChattyDM:
I reiterate that you should probably be a player as the “magnificient bastard”, nemesis to the heroes…
Thought that’s just about as close to DM as can be 😛
Eric Maziades last blog post..The Court of the Final Might
@ChattyDM: Thanks for the welcome, definitely finding this an interesting site to run through :).
Slainte,
-Loonook.
Loonooks last blog post..Children Are Our (Gaming) Future: Blog Carnival Returns to Good Gaming
I must say that I miss playing alot.
I can’t wait for my son to be old enough so he can DM a game and I can play in it! (None of my friends wants to DM…)
He’s 5 years old so I’m not too far away!
@ChattyDM: You should do a post on DM stuck in the DM’s chair! Tricks on ”How to convince players to become masters”…
@Eric: I would definitively play as an adversary (a player who runs NPCs) in someone else’s game for sure! That’s a concept I’d like to try for sure.
@Loonook: Thanks for the kudos, enjoy your stay digging up my archives.
@D_Luck: I could write such a column, but I really wouldn’t be putting my money where my mouth is as I don’t actually try to have my players become DMs. Although, Franky is looking at Star Wars Sega edition and I’ve asked Yan if I could get an invite in his 4e game.
Great post, Chatty!
I’ve only really had experience with one instigator, and it wasn’t a good one (for anyone in the group). A small part of the issue was language. His first language was French, and ours was English. (We’re in Ottawa.) So some of the time he simply wasn’t understanding the scene framing.
… that said, the rest of the time he just did stupid things. I say “he” and not “his character” because it wasn’t in character. I remember one encounter we used up everything we had — our entire “15-minute adventuring day” resources — because he kept running into a courtyard with golem sentries. He just kept getting pounded. Playing a Paladin, I tried to protect him and get him out… and I got pounded. The noble Ranger tried to help… and he got pounded. The Cleric and Druid used up most of their their spell slots healing us all. That is but one example.
So my single experience with an instigator type was horrid. We were all really relieved when he became too busy to continue with the group. Nice enough guy, but a bit dense and definitely a cause for irritation and “What are you doing?!” outbursts.
I’m glad others have had good experiences and, on a theoretical level, I can completely understand and agree how such a player type/personality can be great to have. It’s all about the gamer’s personality. Why is so-and-so an instigator? Answer that question and you’ll know if it’s a good thing or not, case by case.
Rafes last blog post..Burning Shepherd
Its true that careless instigators that barge in on a gaming group with no warning can lead to a bad experience.
The one type of player I truly loath is the instigator that argues tooth and nail to justify his action with spurious arguments and a belligerent tone. In fact, I think that both times I actually showed a player the door, i was dealing with such a type.
In my experience there is a fine line between “instigator” and “troublemaker”, and often the instigator doesn’t know where that line it. A few years back I played with this guy. He was smart, he was a good rper, but he was easily bored. He would get itchy and decided something needed to happen and sometimes that was good… and sometimes he dropped a grenade on the party because the negotiations weren’t going fast enough (literally)… so I always look pretty askance at instigators, especially when they start justifying their actions as “I’m just being realistic!” when they cause headaches for the the other players.
One of the trouble with players (not just instigators) causing headaches for the others is that often the others won’t mention that they are bothered and might even encourage the behavior with slightly positive comments about the action.
My most important point was that instigators are not automatically bad players. But they must be recognized for what they are and the player must mesh with the rest of the group.
I too am not a huge fan of ‘I’m doing what is realistic’ or ‘that’s what my character would do” arguments. At least have the decency to tell me why the character does this… identify a character issue with the situation at hand and explain the behavior based on that.
This post made me realize a sad fact. I’m a DM instigator.
I obsess over flow/timing/pace/action and if it’s been awhile since something has happened I tend to make something happen. This might be ok in moderation but I over do it. I once caught myself before interjecting some “action” cause the characters had done nothing but talk for 10min, aka they were deep into role-play and loving it.
I also enjoy low-level party conflict (fun in game personality clashes Paladin vs Kill’m & Loot’m type stuff). So, I’m often trying to incite that.
“kiss the Succubus”?
Am I the only one to recall a conspicuous kiss in the last session report?
Are you giving away hints now Chatty?
Now now Colmarr, why would I do such a thing? 🙂