At the beginning of what would turn out to be a very busy week thanks to the PHB2, we were able to ask about what Power Source you most wanted to see one year hence in the rumored tome of the PHB3. (Well, not so rumored anymore). Psionic ego whipped and id insinuated its way to the top with 38% of the vote, so maybe a separate Psionic Handbook wouldn’t be out of order either? The first D&D book I ever owned was the 2e Psionics Handbook and I’ve always had a fondness for them (even while seeing the difficulties in making the flavor match the D&D world). Second place is my second choice, Ki, with 28%, which hopefully won’t overlap with the Real Ultimate Power Source.
Last Saturday was Worldwide D&D Game Day, showcasing four of the classes of PHB2 (but only one of the races for some reason) as Paragon PCs sliced their way through One Dark Night in Weeping Briar. I was there, how about you?
[poll id=”118″]
Overall, I enjoyed myself, though several factors made it very difficult. I stopped by my LGS on the way back from work on Friday to inquire about details since their website was completely lacking in any information about it whatsoever. What I received from the guy at the counter was a sob story about how they only received their materials the day before, and how they were limited to 3 tables, and it was going to be first come, first serve, so I should show up early.
So the next day, that’s what I did, eschewing coffee to arrive 15 minutes early. I stood around the back, not knowing if they were going to seat us, or if we should just pick a table. While standing around, I overheard one of the DMs consulting with the store employee managing the event:
“Save ends? It doesn’t list what kind of save it uses. What does that mean?”
“It’s a Reflex trap, so you roll it on Reflex.”
“But all these characters have Reflex saves in the twenties, how do they fail?”
“I guess they don’t.”
At that point I had to interject, asking if they knew how saving throws worked in 4e, and how they were always 10+ and had no type. I received a look and a comment from them that made it clear that they didn’t need my help (even though they obviously didn’t know one of the most core rules about 4e). Fortunately, another gamer who would end up sitting at my table exchanged a knowing glance with me, so I wasn’t alone in my frustration.
Soon after they took charge, and I was seated with several other gamers. The other players started to divvy out characters, and upon coming to the gnome, said “Oh, a Gnome Bard, that’ll be last picked!” but I volunteered to try it out (especially since there was no Sorcerer).
As we prepared to start, the DM and one of the players began to discuss how much they didn’t like 4e, and how 3.5e was better, and how it was too soon for a new edition (“3e was great because 2e sucked” was one comment), and how WotC was just rolling in the money now. Then two of the other players fired back and talked about how much easier it was to run and play, and how that made a huge difference. Great. An edition war at my table. Somehow, they follow me around, even offline.
Now, even if we are OK with the fact that I had an anti-4e DM running a game of 4e at an event for people who wanted to play 4e, it quickly became apparent that this DM did not know the rules to 4e. He seemed to be making up his own rules to conditions like prone, didn’t really get difficult terrain, and clearly didn’t know how his monsters worked (falling back on the same attacks over and over again without variety). The description was similarly bland: “Yeah, you hit him. He dies.” Of course, when there was a lack of description in the module, that was a complaint from the DM too…
The adventure itself was about what I’d expected, though last year’s Into the Shadowhaunt was way better. This year’s was the typical delve format of three encounters close together, with some vaguely interesting terrain. The first fight in particular took a long time, probably because of all the brutes, and I think we were the only table to go through all three fights because of how long the whole session took. (As has been pointed out elsewhere, 2-3 hours my ass).
What did I like? First, after the edition war was out of the way, all the players seemed to get really into it. The Avenger lived up to all my expectations, and did all kinds of crazy “move my target around” maneuvers, and was able to stick it out even when ganged up on. The Invoker was more badass than I was expecting, and got tons of use out of the “Coordinated Explosions” feat. The Barbarian and Paladin were par for the course (none of the new Divine Power-ed abilities for the Paladin stood out to me as all that interesting or game-changing).
Then there was my little Bard. I started the first encounter up on a roof, and stayed there. Since she was built as an entirely ranged character, I was able to rain down all kinds of effects from above, and was never put in harms way. In all three encounters, I was never attacked or hurt once. That’s certainly Gnomish although not particularly fun by itself. I didn’t bring a pencil or pen, and it turned out I never even needed one. That said, the variety of effects the Bard was able to do was awesome and had the other players thanking me when I turned them invisible, gave them concealment, or made a mark appear elsewhere (though the DM’s ignorance about marks made that not a very good strategy). Being able to Thunderwave and Eyebite once per encounter was great. Plus, it reinforced my thought that the Bard is now the best healing class in the game.
So overall? The organization could have been better, the adventure could have been better, and the DM certainly could have been better, but playing fun, new classes with players who were into it saved it for me. For the store and for WotC, it was clearly a success: they sold out of their huge stack of PHB2s that day.
Afterward, I gave my business card to the guy who seemed to be in charge, but he didn’t seem to be impressed that I ran this site, or that I was an experienced 4e DM offering to help their store for nothing. There’s still hope that I’ll be tapped for the next D&D Game Day in May to throw some Monster Manual 2 baddies at the party!
I may also volunteer for the next one, if they have anti-4E people running games at these events that’s just insane. Glad it didn’t end up ruining things for everyone!
Why bother saving the LGS if its not even that cool in the first place?
Why did the bard have thunderwave and Eyebite? I haven’t been able to figure that out?
” I received a look and a comment from them that made it clear that they didn’t need my help (even though they obviously didn’t know one of the most core rules about 4e). “
frakking priceless…
jonathan´s last post: Open Game Table NOW ON SALE!!!
@Harbinger –
Multiclass feats. Bards can multiclass into multiple classes, and this one did both Wizard and Warlock. Mine that I did up on Friday was a Bard/Barbarian/Sorcerer/Ranger (at level 5).
.
I’m not entirely sure how to answer this poll. As I discussed with you and Phil (and anyone else who will hear it, just to show the power of bad service), one DM kinda ruined the actual game day for me, as well.
BUT we did the 24-hour D&D party beforehand, and that was a hell of a lot of fun.
So… yeah, I think I’m an “all of the above” answer.
Graham´s last post: 32 hours of D&D gaming party!
“Afterward, I gave my business card to the guy who seemed to be in charge, but he didn’t seem to be impressed that I ran this site, or that I was an experienced 4e DM offering to help their store for nothing. There’s still hope that I’ll be tapped for the next D&D Game Day in May to throw some Monster Manual 2 baddies at the party!” Sorry i missed it Dave. Maybe next time I’ll be able to make it — it could be a RPG blogger COUP!!! Oh, and yeah… when I told the owner I was a RPG blogger, she was like “Meh…” — Oh, and I just published this book that was reviewed in WIRED “Meh…” — Oh, and your store kinda smells like a locker room “Meh…” (tips hat at Bartoneous). Ohhhhkay….
jonathan´s last post: Open Game Table NOW ON SALE!!!
Here is a short report of my experience
http://blackpharaoh.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/world-wide-dnd-game-day-2009/
Why is majestic word so much better than the cleric’s healing word? Why did they make the bard a better healer than the cleric?
That makes even this newbiedm feel comfortable enough to run a 4th ed. game with complete strangers.
What a crappy experience.
newbiedm´s last post: “Make yourself a monster” day!
@Jonathan: the only thing that will solve apathy / ignorance of that level is a swift kick to the face!
I had a great judge.
At the table were 2 veteran 4e players (bard and paladin) and there was me (Barabarian: read the books, stole stuff for my 3.5 game, but never played 4e), my wife (Invoker: never read it or played), and her friend Lisa (Avenger: first RPG experience ever).
I enjoyed the adventure for what it was a short combat heavy intro. However, I went home and reviewed my character sheet for my Warforged Barbarian and found some gross errors on the power cards and missing info that would have made playing my character a bit easier for a new player. The editing was super sloppy.
Still, I had fun and our store ran 15 tables through out the day.
~~Saracenus
I had to miss Game Day because of family obligations. I did make it up by running the D&D starter adventure using 4 PHB2 classes.
As Dave said, the Invoker has some ‘cool power’ that reading it didn’t bring out. The Sorcerer (Wild Magic) was really fun. After just 2 rounds with the class on the table, we all agreed that it was a cool class. The Barbarian delivers what it promises to do and dishes out the pain. The Bard was fun, a good healer as Dave points out and really different to play, although my buddy playing it wasn’t all that interested in playing the leader role.
My moment of joy:
Phil: Okay, The Dire Wolf will attempt to grab you.
Table: Awwww no!
Phil: What? I just need to roll Str vs Fortitude and we’re done!
Table: Huh?
Priceless.
The Chatty DM´s last post: DM Chronicles, Session 12: Blind and Bloodied Dungeon Crawling, Part 1
I had a good time. My group only made it past the first encounter, but I think that’s mostly because we started half an hour late and only had three players in our group. We had a near TPK that was narrowly avoided thanks to a timely crit on a Rage Strike. The other two guys at the table didn’t know 4e very well, but the DM knew her stuff and kept things going as smoothly as possible.
The kids and I went to this game having NEVER gamed D&D beyond 2e. We enjoyed ourselves immensely. A more detailed synopsis of our day can be found here. D&D day convinced me to get the stuff neccessary to run 4e for my kids.
Vulcan Stev´s last post: Make Yourself a Monster: Vulcan Stev?
@Harbinger –
Majestic Word does 1d6 less healing than Healing Word. The advantage is that it slides the target 1 square. So the Cleric is still better at healing, even if the Bard is more tactically useful.
The Bard is only a comparable healer if you include out-of-combat healing. Song of Rest is wonderful, but doesn’t help you get through a tough encounter.
Graham´s last post: 32 hours of D&D gaming party!
Dave, Jonathan, as we’ve discussed before, it’s very sad what’s becoming of this store after such a long history of serving this area. And with such a strong community of local hobby gamers, it should be doing better.
David´s last post: Herobits, a Non-Collectible CCG
Oh, and I should mention, the pregen Invoker turned my original MEH review into a HIT! Awesome indeed.
Graham´s last post: 32 hours of D&D gaming party!
The general impression from the players at the game I DM’d was that the Bard was a better healer than the Cleric.
Kameron´s last post: Relativism in fantasy fiction
How so, Kameron?
Graham´s last post: 32 hours of D&D gaming party!
you should have told the DM that if he neither likes nor uses the rules of 4th Edition… he shouldn’t be running 4th Edition… in fact, he most likely wasn’t running 4th Edition 😛
I ran the game day at my local store, and a few things popped out at me (ran it a total of four times, so I think it’s not isolated)
1. Three hours, my *entire* ass. Four to six hours is far more realistic, particularly if you have new players at all. The best showing I had was a four-player table, who had an hour to review the characters (while I finished the previous table), fighting combats for *three* players (removing two monsters/traps per encounter), with one helping track initiatives, and a general “go-go-go” atmosphere, and we finished in three and a half. A five player table with two new players was six hours. Four players with two new ones made it through one combat and the skill challenge in three.
2. New classes and races – cool. Paragon characters – cool. Both at the same time – not cool. So much new stuff led to analysis paralysis. At the least, some sort of cheat sheet would have been helpful (by the third table, I was giving everyone a short speech along the lines of “Avenger, you have oath of emnity. It’s like the ranger’s quarry – use it constantly.” (this was after table #2’s avenger never used the power – it just didn’t pop out to them).
3. Some of the typos and omissions were annoying. (Some powers didn’t have the math pre-done, and encounter 2 was very vague on where the entrances/exits were.)
Now, all said, everyone had fun. But when you plan for three hour sessions with an hour break in between, and the sessions are running nearly double that, it wreaks merry hell on the event.
Graham: I don’t think it it was based on any empirical evidence. The guy who played the Bard was new to 4E. I think his good rolls on Majestic Word, combined with some of the other features of the class/race combo that showed the improvement from 3E, impressed the group. So, I’d conclude that their assessment wasn’t solely based on healing ability, even though that’s how they expressed it.
Kameron´s last post: How one woman rocked Relvan’s Rescue
Ah, that makes sense.
Thing is, a Bard is a very good healer. Not as good as a dedicated Cleric, but potentially better than a Battle Cleric build.
Far better than the 3e Bard, in any case.