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Sunday Play Test Unreport!

February 24, 2009 by The Chatty DM

Once a month (when we can find the time) we try to organize a geekout.  It’s a full day event where a slightly different group from my bi-monthly D&D one gathers together to eat junk food, watch some anime and/or movies and play games.

This month, my friend and dubiously trustworthy lieutenant PM proposed to play test the D&D 4e adventure I wrote for Goodman Games.  I graciously accepted.

Now the thing is I can’t write about the content of the adventure so this post may seem self defeating.  However, that session brought enough insights into various subjects that seem relevant enough, regardless of the adventure, that I decided to share it with you.

First off, the group was made up of 5 players.  Three of them were from my current gaming group:

Yan played a fighter (same class he plays in our main campaign) but made it into a different build.  He chose a dual wielding Dwarven fighter called Cylindrix and he gave him an annoying French-German accent.

Franky, who plays an Eladrin Fey Pact warlock settled for a Eladrin Star Pact Warlock nammed Urasam (i.e. his main character’s name, reversed).

Mike decided to stick with his Dragonborn Tactical Warlord named Takeo.

The other two players were not D&D 4e veterans. PM played the character he played for some time in Yan’s game, which is a Dragonborn Inspiring Warlord.  Finally, Vince who played  D&D once with us before (a one session Pathfinder game), played a longbow wielding Elven Ranger.

Okay, so that was 1 fighter, 2 warlords, a warlock and a ranger.  That’s not your average party and I was worried a bit.  To make up for the lack of controller, Yan equipped both his fighter and PM’s warlord with lighting weapons which allowed each a daily burst effect each should minions be a problem needing to be dealt with.

Turns out the character mix worked fine enough.

I already mentioned that my adventure was a short side quest.  It was supposed to interrupt whatever the PCs were doing when the events in it occur.  That’s why I wanted to at least establish some sort of story frame to set the adventure in. Having no clear idea what to make of it, I decided to play some free association with my players.

Chatty: “Okay so you are currently in the free city of… Yan?”

Yan: Flustered, looking at his character sheet and going with the only piece of background he had (the whole germanic voice thing) “Hmmm, Bavaria?”

Chatty: “And your adventuring company is called…Franky?”

Franky: “Hum…. Lupus Fundis!”

The others laughed and the group decided that they were lycantrophe hunters.

Chatty:” All right, you all have silvered weapons should you need them over the adventure then.  Lastly where are you headed next….Mike?”

(I usually asked the question to whomever was talking last.  Also, the silver weapon thing was a bit of a red herring as there were no were creatures in the adventure).

Mike: “Strasbourg!”

In for a penny, in for a pound… A note to my German and/or French readers, please disregard the gross misuse of your geography, our game was set in a very fictional and fantastic version of western Europe.

Chatty: “Okay so you are going to go from the Bavarian free-hold, cross the Black Forest to to get to Strasboug.  It’s about 2 days for walking travelers, mostly civilized and you are expecting to stop at an Imperial Hostel halfway through your journey”

The adventure started somewhere in that forest.  I can’t say more…

This little trick I used up there, James Wyatt did to us at Gen Con for the Press D&D game Wizards of the coast hosted for us.  It’s the same I used in my campaign’s first session and the one I use whenever I tell my son an interactive story (which I should start doing again methinks).  Once the players recover from the shock of being put on the spot, it’s surprising to see what can be built with just a few questions.

Mangled European geography aside, in 4 questions we already established that the party were werewolf hunters going from a City-State to some other city in another Duchy/Kingdom/region. Plus I plunked a big forest in the middle.

Bam, instant campaign starter.  Try it, it works!

The adventure’s first scene was a skill challenge. It was an average one (8 successes vs 3 failures) that simulated something the rules aren’t all that good to do: a Chase.   The scene went well although players failed it.  Going over it with my players after the scene, some of their insights are worth sharing here.

Franky, who’s our group greatest storyteller, finds that skill challenges, at least the ones I DMed so far, put too big a burden on the shoulders of each player.  Each failure counts for 33% of the total allowable failure and he finds this a steep cost.

Mike, who rolled 2 of the 3 failures, mentioned that on paper, skill challenge require that the party strive to obtain the biggest possible bonuses for each key skill check.  However in practice, when it’s your turn to roll the dice, you just want to go for it damn it all!

Yan mentioned that skill challenges were an awesome mechanic that allowed to make pretty much any situation not directly covered in the rules into a fun mini-game.  However, he said that building skill challenges were a lot harder than it appears (and I agree).

From these, and my 3 sessions testing Kobold Love (Yeah, I’ll return to it soon enough), I got a few tips for future challenges.

  • When it can apply to the situation, make it possible to buy back failures in a skill challenge.
  • If you build a skill challenge that can move your story/scene forward:
    • Have each successes move one element of your story forward
    • Don’t hinge the story’s conclusion on the sole success of the challenge
    • Make failures as setbacks that can be surmounted (or bought back).
  • Apply generous bonuses to players who try to describe more than the mere skill he/she uses.

The last two scenes of the adventure were combat encounters.  Those who have grown used to my style when designing encounters know that I love adding interactive  elements (which I still call Action Zone, a term coined by Mike Mearls in Iron Heroes) to fights.  I did it too in this adventure.  However, I noticed that I forgot a few key lessons (which I’ll correct in the post play test manuscript)

  • If your zone needs a standard action and an attack roll to work, the effect needs to have an impact that is at least, on par with any of the party’s encounter powers.  Otherwise no one will use it.
  • Don’t string too many success rolls to achieve an effect, this will just make the zone unattractive. If you want PCs (and monsters) to push a wall on their enemies, don’t have a Str check vs a fixed DC followed by an attacks vs the enemy’s Reflex defense.  Go directly for a Str vs Ref attack and decide if the wall falls or not on a failure.
  • Mixing traps, zones with waves of enemies works, but a few tiny details can spell the difference between a cakewalk and instant PC doom.  That’s why there’s playtesting in published adventures.

The players managed to beat the adventure without too much sweatting.  In fact they aced the final encounter and had an easier time than in the second scene.  Yet, the group played without the same degree of synergy that my Friday group shows and some players had some serious streaks of bad luck.  This tells me that the adventure is probably a bit on the easier side than I initially anticipated.  I’ll see to it to make it more challenging.

On the whole, the players had fun and the whole thing was played and done with in about 4 hours.  I think people will enjoy playing  it and I look forward playing it at a Con or something.

There you have it.  A game report with a big hole in the middle.  I so look forward to tell people about it (and should start thinking about writing another one).

Cheers

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Filed Under: Musings of the Chatty DM, Roleplaying Games Tagged With: 4e, playtest

Comments

  1. Wyatt says

    February 24, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Your action zone idea sounds a lot like an idea I just called “action commands” after its use in video games. Those areas where you stand on and suddenly you get PRESS A over your character’s head and you can do something cool you otherwise cannot. I often have at least one in every battle in campaigns I run. However, being that my games are very meta, I also have traditional action commands where you flat out tell a player “if you stand next to this guy you can do X” but you can’t do X at any other time. So not just zones, but also commands you can execute on the enemies themselves to give you an advantage.

    For skill challenges, I often design mine with an option that can let you roll for a success directly after a failure (in the adventure I wrote on my blog, there’s a challenge where PCs are sneaking around – if they fail Stealth, they can instantly roll Acrobatics at a much easier DC), but not exactly “buy back” the failure in its entirety.

    Sounds like your adventure’d be a blast though. I like the design ideas you’ve shown so far.

    Wyatts last blog post..The Primus Libris: Chapter 1

  2. ChattyDM says

    February 24, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    During the time that I was playing Iron Heroes and was actively following the forums on the subject, there was often arguments as to how to inform players that any given zone could be cool.

    In 4e I use the incremental DCs of a Perception check to give hints to players. So given a Wall that can be pushed to crumble on opponents. I’d go DC X = You see that the free standing wall is damaged and is missing stones in places. DC X+5 = The masonry of the wall is rotten and it seems fragile. DC X+10: A good shove could send it crashing over an area of so X so…

    I think that you need to have a way for players to discover zones. Another use I’ve seen in the D&D day introductory adventure of last year is to have the bad guys trigger the zone on the PCs (but then you need to make this into a trap and count some XPs for it).

  3. The Last Rogue says

    February 24, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Building off that last reply, I also use Insight checks in a similar manner or to hint at some intuitive/on-the-spot realization on the PCs behalf. Also for more combat-oriented ‘realizations’ or awareness, I have at times used the PCs attack bonus as a skill roll.

    Another good post.

    I look forward to your adventure.

    The Last Rogues last blog post..Statuesque women, skullwearing unipeds, and 3 feet to the left

  4. Wyatt says

    February 24, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    I would also suggest knowledge checks. Dungeoneering for example could help a guy tell how to use a bit of dungeon geography on his enemies; Nature for how to screw enemies over in the great outdoors.

    Me? I just tell players. I often turn it into a meta-joke. They’re used to it by now. I also boldly do it to strangers – I make plain what they got into when they join, so it shouldn’t jar them.

    Wyatts last blog post..The Primus Libris: Chapter 1

  5. Yan says

    February 24, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    The “story generation” part at the start was really cool.

    As a matter of fact we often joke during the adventure that we would rather be hunting werewolves. 😉

    As for the adventure in itself… I’ll tell you that those that have been reading this blog will recognize some tropes…

  6. Vulcan Stev says

    February 24, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    I really like your idea of free-association for the hook. I will definitely use that in the future.

    BTW Hope to hear more of your son’s bedtime stories

    Vulcan Stevs last blog post..Game Night 2-22-09

  7. Ron Bailey says

    February 25, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Great post. Loved the way you generated a backstory on the fly.

    Ron Baileys last blog post..Links for 2009-02-23 [del.icio.us]

  8. Eric Maziade says

    February 25, 2009 at 1:41 am

    I would try to make skill challenge failures as cool as successes.

    Most movies I’ve seen show the hero trying to do something heroic, failing at one point, and dealing with the failure in creative ways.

    Eric Maziades last blog post..What We Learned – Because Every Game Session Yields Questions.

  9. Questing GM says

    February 25, 2009 at 2:57 am

    ‘When it can apply to the situation, make it possible to buy back failures in a skill challenge.’

    This is a pretty interesting idea, I will look into it.

    Questing GMs last blog post..Pathfinder Beta Playtesting Closing

  10. ChattyDM says

    February 25, 2009 at 9:02 am

    @Yan, Vulcan and Ron: The instant backstory trick is so easy to do, I really should do it more often.

    @Eric: Agreed. I’m still at the stage of mastering the damn things, but I’m thinking ahead for sure.

  11. Ameron says

    February 25, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Sounds like fun. With any luck I’ll have an opportunity to play this adventure at a future Con.

    I’ve found that two Warlords (or one Warlord and one Paladin) are often suitable replacements for a Cleric in 4e D&D. It sounds like your party had little difficulty with this arrangement. It eliminates the need for one guy at your gaming table to “take one for the team” and play the Cleric even though he’d rather not.

    I really like the points you mentioned about running skill challenges. The idea of “buying back” failures seems to be growing in popularity. Many DMs I’ve played with (myself included) allow this in place of a success if the role-playing situation warrants it. This becomes especially important if you require 10 or 12 successes before 3 failures.

    I’m also a big believer in granting bonuses to players who really try. The more detailed and descriptive they can be when role-playing a skill challenge the more likely I am to grant a bonus.

    Amerons last blog post..Necromancer Paragon Path

  12. Eric Maziade says

    February 25, 2009 at 10:57 am

    @Chatty: Your hands-on mastery sure trumps my theoretical musings 🙂

    When you DMed for us, your subtle use of skill challenges during a fight really showcased the potential for the mechanics for me – something that goes beyond the odd “dice mini game” described in the PHB.

    Eric Maziades last blog post..What We Learned – Because Every Game Session Yields Questions.

About the Author

  • The Chatty DM

    The Chatty DM is the "nom de plume" of gamer geek Philippe-Antoine Menard. He has been a GM for over 40 years. An award-winning RPG blogger, game designer, and scriptwriter at Ubisoft. He squats a corner of Critical Hits he affectionately calls "Musings of the Chatty DM." (Email Phil or follow him on Twitter.)

    Email: chattydm@critical-hits.comWeb: https://critical-hits.com//category/chattydm/

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