I don’t think it was mentioned much but one of the minor things that changed in D&D 4e is the assumption that most underground adventure locales would be lit by a light source. I distinctly recall, in all previous edition, having to ask who held the light and where that person stood in the marching order because everything was always sunk in darkness.
This of course lead to all kinds of ingenious ways PCs used for securing a light source without sacrificing a hand slot. This culminated with my group’s use of a pair of Sunrods attached to the horns of a helmet with wire. Hello stealth!
(Oddly enough, I think it took D&D 4e to make an official ruling about a PC being automatically spotted if he/she held a light source. Check it, PHB P. 188)
(Post publication edit: The D&D basic rules had such a ruling too, see comments, so I stand corrected)
Dealing with darkness, natural or otherwise, was one of those annoying things that you had to deal with… up until D&D 3.5 changed darkness to ‘shadowy light’ (let’s not go there).
In 4e, they decided to do away with all this and the core assumption became that…
Many dungeons and caverns are illuminated to some degree, since only a few monsters are truly at home in pitch blackness. (DMG 4e, p. 66)
Dungeons are often illuminated by torches (some times magic torches that never stop burning), ceiling panels magically imbued with light, great oil-filled braziers or stone channels that burn continuously, or even globes of light that drift through the air.
Caverns might be filled with phosphorescent fungi or lichen, extraordinary mineral veins that glimmer in the dark, streams of glowing lava, or eerie auroralike veils of magic fire undulating high above a cavern floor. (PHB p 262)
Now it can be argued that this comes from the same design philosophy that decided to get rid of the ‘unfun’ parts of D&D. I won’t argue the decisions behind this because, quite frankly, since my players were always being smartasses about light sources, I stop bothering about it. Pretty much like I stopped checking encumbrance and the consumption of food and water in the game. I never was much of a simulationist.
No the point of this post is that when I read those excerpts from the DMG and the PHB, I couldn’t shake the feeling that I had read this type of ‘philosophy’ about light sources somewhere else.
I found it yesterday while reading an old favorite of mine:
But mysterious caves and tunnels always have luminous fungi, strangely bright crystals or at a pinch merely an eldritch glow in the air, just in case a human hero comes in and needs to see in the dark. Strange but true (Men at Arms, Terry Pratchett).
There you have it, the new light source philosophy of D&D4e is not merely a Rule of Fun driven decision, it was also inspired by the wisdom of sir Pratchett who called it in 1993 based on common fantasy tropes!
4e Discworld anyone?
You know…I never even read that before. I personally never bothered with light or anything, so in 4e I just went along not caring about light and assuming that if it’s dark, well it’s dark, and if it’s light, well it’s light.
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While my world is no Discworld, I am using CMOT Dibbler as a traveling merchant who keeps showing up in the oddest places with some interesting items for sale. The last such item being discount healing potions that come with a warning label and a random effects table.
“If you are carrying a light source (a torch or a lantern), other creatures will probably see the light as you approach, and will not be surprised” – Dungeon’s & Dragons Players Manual (Basic D&D) p. 57 (c) 1983.
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Pues todo el mundo ya sabia que SIR Terry Pratchett es Dios
“Translation”: Pratchett is God and Wotc are their prophets
Viva Mundodisco!!! Hurray Discworld!!!!
@Wyatt: Yup usually not a big thing except now they went out and made a point of explaining that underground locales are now usually lit.
@Thasmodious: CMOT Dibbler is a great model for the sleazy NPC merchant. How do your players react to him?
@Joshua: I stand corrected. Thanks!
@Gerard: Mundodisco! Sounds like a nightclub! I wonder how they translated that to French.
“Mundodisco” is spanish (me too but i’m living in México since 10 years ago)
Mundo=world
disco=disc
Yeah mundodisco sounds like a nightclub.
I’m a big fan of your page
Saludos
we always used to ignore the rules for light sources unless it became important in the game. We treated food and water the same. As long as they carried some sort of light source and some amount of food and water we assumed that they used them and replenished when they could.
Once, for example, the PCs were stranded in a desert, at which point keeping track of food and water was important, once they reached civilisation again the assumption was they replenished their supply (with a small reduction in wealth) and they were good to go.
Another time they came across a light activated trap, at which point keeping track of who had the light and where they were became important.
@ Gerard: Welcome to the blog! With temperatures in the -20s Celsius in Montreal, I often find myself dreaming of vacations in Mexico!
There’s no arguing with Pratchett. Let there be mysterious light sources just to make the life of heroes easier. Of course they might also shut down at inappropriate moments…
So, WOTC have started following tropes in their sourcebooks? You are DEFINITELY getting somewhere chatty. I agree with Tommi – you have been given a wonderful opportunity to subvert the trope as you see fit.
I am a great fan of pratchett, I am not running the Discworld, but am actually thinking of using “where’s my cow” (thud – 2005) as a Macguffin of major importance “to be here by six” in an introductory game as a low key quest.
I’ve totally thought about running a D&D game set in Discworld.
Nice catch, Phil. I hadn’t noticed the emphasis on illuminated dungeons. I’ve tried to remind players who like to stealthy scout ahead everywhere that they either need to see or be stealthy.
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-20 Celsius!! OMG, you and your family can come anytime and I’ll give you a tour of Mexico City …where people complain of the chill and start wearing sweaters at +7 Celsius
-20 C? Pfft!
Call me when it’s -50 C and we’ll talk.
On a related note, it’s unseasonably warm here in central Canada this week. Only -10 C now, and hasn’t been much more than -20 C for a week.
It’s beginning to freak people out.
Well at least it’s still warmer then a lot other places in Canada
Currently: -28C at YellowKnife or even better -35C at Alert says environment Canada… Compare to the -11 at winnipeg or -16 at Montreal…
Point is… I’d rather be in mexico complaining about the lousy 7 degree… 🙂
Jesus christ!!!
I’m with Alberto. Your family and you are very welcome at Mexico City.
i know and I love Canada… (at summer)!
Funny how that conversation crashed into talking about the weather. If I ever go to Mexico, I’ll ring you guys for sure!
Brrrr.
When 3rd ed came out we always invested heavily in sunrods and threw them around to light up places, and they are even better in 4E. so the idea continues.
for stealth… if it ever comes up, we cast a few rituals on a lamp or torch, and then it can’t be seen from more than a few squares away, it’s really good for big caves and long tunnels against things with Darkvision
The idea that most caverns and dungeons have some form of light certainly levels the playing field for those races with normal vision. But have you noticed that none of the races available in the PHB have darkvision? Many have low-light vision, but darkvision is no longer available to PCs.
In previous editions many of my players would not play humans because they didn’t like being the only guy who couldn’t see without a torch. Many of these same players choose to play Dwarves simply to have darkvision. And it was used (and abused) to their full advantage. No more with 4e. Eliminating darkvision from player races was a great improvement in my book.
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My favorite as player with the light is when I bought a ring that render me invisible to darkvision when in darkness. Oh the joy of transforming a nasty advantage of the monster against them. Of course I had also bought some darkvision potions to gives them a taste of their own medecine…
🙂
Chatty, it’s Disque Monde in French. I got one or two french diskworld books lying around, they sell them in Archambault and Renaud Bray. The translation is good actually. I was laughing out loud with the french translation as well as the original english version.
Hmm, D&D in discworld…. Man I don’t have enough imagination to DM that.
@Ameron – Yeah, the community was pretty torn when they said in Races and Classes that Dwarves (and most other races) wouldn’t have Darkvision.
.
@Jaurès – I may have enough imagination for it, if I tried and borrowed heavily from source material, but I dare not try. Some of my players are more familiar with it than I am, and some have never read Discworld. Not a good mix.
.
On another note, it’s currently -4, and I barely need a jacket outside. In January! In Winnipeg! I think it’s springtime already.
And people say global warming is made up…
y’know, there’s a GURPS Discworld game/book…. 😀 (I haven’t run it, but it was great fun to read and probably adapts decently well…. it is several years old though so it’s not up-to-date on current Disc proceedings)
Terry Pratchett really knows his stuff….which is why Discworld is 9.57 times out of 10 a hoot to read 🙂
as for the ‘yep, there’s at least some sort of light’ rule….on first reading I was pretty irritated, thinking it was senseless pandering, but on further thinking….ya, I can see that it makes sense in-game, and it would let you do some neat stuff when they did come to an unlighted area – not just nasty things to remind them to buy a freakin’ lantern, but probably some good atmospheric stuff too.
I do the same has described by Dogma. I think it get’s important to track those things only when they become important to the plot.
In a dungeon crawl I keep track of the light carrier more carefully. First target you know… hehe
Graham
I may have enough imagination for it, if I tried and borrowed heavily from source material, but I dare not try. Some of my players are more familiar with it than I am, and some have never read Discworld. Not a good mix.
You know, that actually works out pretty well a lot of the time. That pretty much describes almost every non-convention amber game I’ve ever played in or run, as well as a BubbleGum Crisis game I played, and about half of the published campaign world D&D campaigns I’ve been in. I’ve been known to lean on players with more familiarity with a setting to help keep things straight, and can help sell the setting to the neophytes.
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This seems like one of those many ways in which AD&D is just too anal and too weird. Every DM should just figure out light issues for themselves. i.e. if it’s inconvenient for it to be dark, it’s light; and if it’s convenient, it’s dark. I suppose it’s fine for the AD&D authors to want to think of every single little detail; but it bothers me when DMs and players go along with it as if D&D is its own separate reality, rather than just a way of describing the reality you want to create.
I would add to light encumberance as something I just can’t be bothered with.
And re: the weather, you guys don’t know what you’re talking about. -20C? 3m of snow? Whatevvvvvvvvver! Here in London we had -2C and 6 in of snow, and everything came to a screeching halt. You guys should try those kinds of extremes before you start complaining!
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AD&D?
Man, it hasn’t been AD&D since second edition. 😛
But, on-topic, it’s really only spelled out in 4e because the underlying assumption (most races can see in the dark) changed from all the previous editions.
But what is said in the 4e books is essentially what you said. Don’t make everything dark, because darkness is often inconvenient and doesn’t add anything. Unless it does, in which case make it dark.
The “all caves glow, just in case a hero wanders by” is pure Pratchett, and is not actually said in 4e.
I know it makes me show my age but I just can’t adapt to the change of name. It’ll always be AD&D to me ! And it does seem to get more and more “advanced”…
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Actually, 4e is blissfully simplified when compared to certain other editions that shall remain namless. It managed to find a good balance between “real”, “balanced” and “simple”. Unlike aforementioned other edition, which put all of its money on “real” (and did a fairly good job in that field because of it).
I am one of those DMs who was horrible about checking who was holding the torch. One nice thing about assuming an external light source is that plunging characters into the dark can be used for great effect as an event.
What I mean is that if the characters get used to glowing lichen, taking it away from them for a spell is a big deal. Plus, if you are the DM, remembering to keep track of light sources is easier for short periods than for an entire adventure.
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Wow! I really love to have old posts get revisited!
@V’ic: I could not agree more. Simple is good. I’ve had to use strict lighting rules in a Tournament at Gen Con and I found that 4e’s take on it was easy to use.
And I’ve discovered just how cool Darkvision-Artillery monsters can be!
@Rob: Totally. Playing around with the game’s core assumptions is a great way of throwing a curveball to otherwise overconfident PCs.
In a related subject, I got to play an actual O D&D game at Gen Con, DMed by the awesome Chgowiz and I discovered just how cool it could be to have light source become critical factors in exploration and, above all, dealing with monsters.
More on this real soon…