So 24 hours (and about 80 comments) after publication, a lot has been discussed about yesterday’s post.
I don’t want to spend more time on this. I feel it’s time I put my money where my mouth is and leave discussion about the D&D edition transition behind me and start focusing on the near future (Gen Con!) and the period after that (New Campaign!)
I will however point to other people’s post that linked to it.
Sean K Reynolds mused on letting D&D 4e live on its own merit instead of being compared to the previous edition.
(Yeah, I’ve been having chain-geekouts on my side of the screen these last few weeks with all these industry people I admire dropping in for a quick comment or three…)
Greywulf also took the occasion to revisit his Dungeonmaster’s Creed and how D&D 4e stacks up against it.
Dungeon grrrl linked to the post (warning, some of her LJ avatars are NSFW ) to point to the possibility of having a cordial online discussion about such an emotionally charged subject. She also has a funny post, poking at WotC’s Gleemax issue, right here.
If I missed any (I’m sorry), feel free to inform me and I’ll update this post.
Have a nice evening, I.now.must.sleep.
See? Now we’ve got nothing to say 🙂
Not comparing Editions is like going into a Dungeon and not killing all the monsters. It ain’t natural, I tell ya!
But seriously, I agree. 4e has to stand or fall on it’s own merits. While comparisons are going to be inevitable for a long, long time (heck, I still compare 3e to my Classic D&D Rules Cyclopedia (praiseitsholyname)), the shift needs to be made. 4e is a game in it’s own right, and needs to be treated as such.
And it IS a rather good game too. Despite everything that’s happened. Or because of it. Either.
greywulfs last blog post..DoesFourthEditionMeetTheDungeonMastersCreed: Surprisingly, it does. Almost. 8/12 isn’t half bad 🙂
FWIW, I’m getting tired of rambling on about 4th Edition as well. The sad thing is that my 4-part review of it is my most popular article. Never mind the cool stuff about getting into your character I’ve posted…nope, they all want the 4th edition stuff.
Oh well.
Most of my posts have been non-4th Edition specific (or D&D specific truth be told), so hence forth I’m planning on just letting 4th Edition be.
Toms last blog post..Gleemax is Dead…is WOTC feeling OK?
Whoops… I didn’t really realize what a monster your last post generated. I guess the part of your post that was about geeks being easily riled up is now kinda front and center for everyone to see. ‘Cause by this point I think we’re ready to get riled up about getting riled up about being riled up over the new edition’s introduction. We aren’t really sure what we don’t like about it but we’re pretty sure we don’t all agree. And we’re willing to get riled up about that too! 🙂
I think it’s a symptom of that terminal “thinking too much” syndrome the lot of us seem to share. Dunno about alla youse but I’m gonna go sleep and then self medicate with coffee and/or ice cream. Why? Because ice cream makes everything better.
@Tom: Therein lies a blogger’s trap. This one post landed me the most comments ever outside of a Contest. I already said that comments are a blog’s currency and that they are addictive… When inspiration or energy levels get low, it becomes tempting to kick a geeky hornet nest and enjoy the (nearly) free ride.
I really am glad that this blog has quite possibly the highest commenter to reader ratio… It means that people feel safe to say their piece and that they are motivated to do so by my content (or other people’s comments).
I just can’t ride this wave without innovating. My next personal goal is to hit 1000 RSS subscribers based on new content…
@Lanir: Fan Geeks are the best. Yes we tend to overthink, over analyze and nitpick rocks into sand… but we are also fierce, if somewhat jealous, lovers of our hobby.
Ice cream does make everything better…. especially topped with Bacon!
Makin bacon with macon? I always found it funny how much pigs like pork, wonder if that’s why it’s illegal to eat people…hmmm…”food” for thought.
I agree chatty, I’m getting more feedback on my 4e posts than anything…I think it’s just that everyone wants to be right. Big surprise huh? We all are searching for validation for the way we feel, whether it be pro or con.
Prepare for another big spike in hating around…oh…next month. When the FR campaign guide drops, it will be heard around the web. I’ve been a fan of reading the materials more than actually playing them, so it’s all cheddar to me, but some folks practically LIVE there! They’ll see it as a bulldozer crushing their house under.
I’m just glad the name calling has died down a bit. THAT was getting old the day it started, there’s nothing more sad to see than a geek war.
Donny_the_DMs last blog post..4E: An analysis of sorts – "The tyranny of balance"
Don’t expect to hear me discuss the FR campaign setting. Mostly because I’m not a fan of this campaign setting except for having read a few novels set in it.
So this place will be a shelter through the storm.
@Donny_the_DM – just remember: if you ever walk into a restaurant and ‘long pork’ is on the menu smile nice, leave a big tip, and don’t go to the bathroom alone 😀
@ChattyDm – bacon on ice cream? *shudder* (although the really decadent stuff is made with lard I think….hmmm…. 🙂 )
ChattyDM had a good idea like
“Ice cream does make everything better…. especially topped with Bacon!”
Annoyed ‘cos Gleemax rised your comments average?
Start a parallel cook book and became a blogger-rich! 😉
Just kidding. The four sentences.
You’ve made me follow those pretty links and read fastly through them.
I agree with the general idea of letting 4e be judged by itself, and I think that the best rpg blog articles are those that are not game-specific (where by “game” I mean that different D&D editions are different games). Obviously the genre influences those articles, but my favorite articles can be applied to a notable number of RPGs…
I’m expecting those New Campaign articles!
Greetings!
Aritz
@Chatty,
That’s the REALLY odd thing about my 4th Edition review. ZERO comments, just reads. Go figure 😉
Toms last blog post..Gleemax is Dead…is WOTC feeling OK?
I think a lot of the interest in systems by hardened role-players comes from our interest in tinkering, in how things work. I think everyone who plays for a long time has a view about how the world works and how it should be represented, and the consequences of representing it a different way through the system. Obviously we’re all first and foremost interested in a system we can play, but there is more to it than that.
Systems affect the cosmology of the world they represent. You can’t play Forgotten Realms with Traveller rules, even if you adapted them – Traveller rules are for space opera. Similarly space opera played with 2nd Edition AD&D won’t feel like space opera. So we are all interested in how a game company rejigs a game system, because it affects how we think they view the cosmology of the world (or a milieu). And they control some aspects of that world which we can’t – they have the art department, and the full-time geeks making adventures and maps and magic.
I also think fundamentally most people believe that WOTC’s gaming dept cares about where this game goes and how it feels. And we respect their efforts to make the game what it is, so we’re interested in what they have to say about where it should go. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, provided we don’t expect too much of them and they don’t pay too little attention to us.
flashhearts last blog post..More on the Economics of Virtual Worlds
Or maybe we have just become so entrenched in how we percieve the game to be, that we resist change for the sake of it.
Of all the hobbies out there, we tend to be seen as, and usually are, a clannish and obsessive bunch. I mean how else can you explain D&D’s intrinsic coolness vs. small number of players? It’s not like nobody else LIKES dragons or fantasy, right?
Donny_the_DMs last blog post..Point – Counterpoint
I think this transends RPGs. I think it’s the intersection of Fan and Geek… Look at Star Wars, Star Trek and Forgotten Realms…
Fans love a product so much that you end up not being able to touch it to provide said fans with more material for them to obsess about.
That’s why I blew up Ptolus in my last 3.5 game, ignoring the whole Lovecraftian theme. I paid 120$ for that book I damn well will do what I want with it and screw Canon!
And how much of that is about the game you first experienced? For a lot of geeks discovery of RPGs is a life-changing experience at school (I know, life-changing experiences at school seem rather trivial later in life, but they have an indelible effect).
I do think games have a particular feel though. SLA Industries, Shadowrun, Traveller – very specific atmospheres. Maybe one of the benefits of 3.5 is that it can transcend its atmosphere and apply across genres (I don’t believe so), but if so that makes it all the more important that the company don’t break it.
flashhearts last blog post..Current gaming: Traveller
I’d say that’s a benefit of the underlying d20 system, but not D&D.
d20 is a simple enough mechanic that it doesn’t tend to get in the way of the atmosphere. This is why the d20 Modern and Star Wars products were also able to do well.
But D&D tends to have a specific feel to it.
I don’t think this is a bad thing.