Last week, I made the big announcement, which boiled down to this:
I want to do a new version of d20 Modern but updated with 4e-style rules. And I’m going to share the process of making it with all of you, and get your feedback as I go.
But that doesn’t really tell you anything about how I’m going to do it. This week I’m going to tell you what my goals for the game are and some broad strokes as far as the rules go. However, I’m going to cover two things up front, which may disappoint some of you:
- This will not just be 4e rules, classes, etc. reskinned for Modern times. Not that I have anything against this approach (check out the write-ups for Greywulf’s “Endday” campaign for an excellent way this is being done in his campaign) but it’s not the game I want to design… for one, the work is mostly done already and isn’t anything you couldn’t do at home.
- Furthermore, 4th Power will not have all the same design goals and assumptions that 4e has. This is a big one. What it means is that I’m not just going to take the same structure from 4e and make new classes/feats/skills/bad guys to fit that structure in Modern times. In that way, it’s going to be farther out than d20 Modern was to 3e. The big reason for this is that it’s not the game I want to play. Second on the list is that a 3rd party publisher is definitely going to be doing this, with a bigger budget and bigger staff, so on some level I would be competing with it. (Amethyst may be the first of these to come out.) By changing up some assumptions, I can assure that my game is going to conflict with someone else’s game, especially in case WotC ever decides to do it.
That’s all vague stuff, I know. I just wanted to get it out there. Now let’s hit some specifics:
Core Design Elements
- Create an experience inspired by and similar to D&D 4e, without being beholden to D&D concepts.
- Utilize the powers system in interesting ways that show the breadth of an exception-based design.
- Create a scalable experience to add another dimension to the Level system, such that Call of Cthulhu-style games and action movie games are all supported just by changing the level of play.
- Bring some of the simple elements of D&D 4e forward while dropping out some of the fiddly bits that don’t work as well for a separate non-D&D game.
Let’s drill down into each one.
Create an experience inspired by and similar to D&D 4e, without being beholden to D&D concepts
To put it simply, in modern games, exploring dungeons and fighting dragons isn’t a common occurrence, and the rules need to reflect that. At the same time, there are commonalities that worked for d20 Modern that will work for this. The 6 ability scores are there, as well as 4e defenses, skills, feats, and powers. Classes are there, though we don’t have Fighters and Wizards… we’ll use the same solution as d20 Modern by giving one class for each ability score.
It’s not just specific things on the character sheet either. Combat just is not the same focus. So we’re going to axe the battlemap entirely, and do combat a bit more abstractly. This solves some other problems too: there’s just not nearly as many modern minis or maps for gaming. This ripples out a bit by eliminating specific distances in play (so no more pull 3 squares, or range 30 ft +5 per level.)
Utilize the powers system in interesting ways that show the breadth of an exception-based design
Once we’ve eliminated the need for as much variety in combat powers as 4e has, we’re left with a wide open design space for what powers modern characters would have. Strong Heroes might still beat, break, and smash in a variety of ways, but a Smart Hero might be brimming with ideas, be able to dramatically jury-rig an invention out of parts lying around, and hack into the phone company with a joystick.
This means that the number of strictly attack powers can be adjusted, and eliminates the distinction between attack and utility, though the actual rate by which you gain more powers may need some adjusting.
And while we’re at it, “Encounter” is a combat-centric concept, and “Daily” is a D&D hold-over, so why don’t we just make the powers “At-Will”, “Per Scene”, and “Per Session.”
Create a scalable experience to add another dimension to the Level system, such that Call of Cthulhu-style games and action movie games are all supported just by changing the level of play
This is another big break from D&D and another reason I may be disappointing 4e/Modern fans with the rules, but here it is: I want the option to have characters that are easily killed. While I’m all in favor of making level 1 adventurers competent and not kill-able by critically hitting house cats in D&D, I want that option for modern. I want characters who can’t stand up to monsters and live without being lucky and/or clever. The idea started years ago when all the PCs were ordinary college freshman, and for this game to be a success with me it must support it.
Fortunately, I think there’s an obvious mechanic that can support this: the level mechanic (and the accompanying tiers.) 1-10, the Heroic Tier, can be for ordinary characters (with low HP.) Then at 11-20 when they can pick up a Paragon Path equivalent, you get more trained characters like secret agents, witty hackers, and influential celebrities. 21+? You can be the Goddammed Batman. That way, you can choose what level you want to start the game at depending on your preferred style of play, with a built in transition between styles if you want. This may not be a good solution for everyone, but it fits what I want to do with the game very well.
Dividing the tiers like this also means I can separate the design and work on pieces at a time. Thus, I can develop levels 1-10 independently and create a campaign setting to go with it, playtest it, and get that down before I start worrying about higher levels.
Bring some of the simple elements of D&D 4e forward while dropping out some of the fiddly bits that don’t work as well for a separate non-D&D game
The framework of 4e is quite robust, especially for the very basics. Ability checks, how skills are calculated, ability score vs. defense, saving throws, the glory that is page 42… all have their place. (Armor Class might go away, though.)
At the same time, as works with the non-combat focus, we don’t need some of the more fiddly bits anymore. Conditions and ongoing damage aren’t as necessary, though they’ll still be around as available design options, though possibly trim the condition list a bit. We also won’t, to start at least, have anything in the way of mystical abilities which eliminates some possibilities as far as powers go. At the same time, rituals are an easy add on that can be used or not depending on the style of your game.
There are still some areas that I haven’t decided on and would appreciate some input: healing surges being a big one.
The Modern Touch
That’s not a comprehensive list of what will guide me in the design, but the main ones that will guide me as I examine 4e. From the other direction, d20 Modern serves as an excellent template of what needs to be in a modern game (like pointing out that it’s better to track wealth in an abstract way instead of a concrete number of dollars.) With those two game books on either end, and these guiding principles, I have some constraints on what is going into the game.
Now, I said up front that I’m going to get your help, and I meant it. But these are the core principles of my game and so they’re not quite as negotiable as everything to come later. Feel free to weigh in anyway if there’s anything you disagree with or think I’ve missed, and if you’re still onboard, tune in next week when I’ll need a lot of help as we look at the 6 core classes and what they should be able to do.
Sounds nifty. Can’t wait to see what you come up with – especially for the abstract combat system.
.-= Aaron´s last blog ..Play Like a Monkey Island Pirate Day This Weekend =-.
Totally, totally behind this!
.-= greywulf´s last blog ..Burning bright =-.
I think Healing Surges should be toned down, but can be kept in. Limit the amount of surges – there’s only so many times a person can get up by sheer grit, but he should be able to in an action-oriented modern game, at least in my opinion. Maybe limit them to one or two, but have them heal more when they’re used?
.-= Wyatt´s last blog ..10 Things You Must Know About The Spirits of Eden =-.
Given that you are making Heroic tier (1-10) lower scaled, I would consider leaving healing surges right out of the first tier, but added in the second.
I would also consider renaming the tiers… Skilled? or Gifted? Tier(1-10), Heroic Tier(11-20), Paragon Tier(21-30). The idea being that by the time a person reaches the Heroic Tier in 4th Power, they are closer to the power level of a D&D 4e Heroic Tier. As well, it is unlikely that a modern setting will reach the equivalent of Epic Tier especially given that you are devoting the first tier to a lower power level.
Interesting…
.-= Stuart´s last blog ..Alchemists in RPGs =-.
Limited healing surges, based on tier? I like something along those lines. I’m definitely going to cut back on HP (for low levels at least) and considering making temp HP to be the “inspiring/grit” sort of HP. One of the advantages of going “per scene” means healing powers that would normally be unrestricted with enough time can now be restricted by DM caveat.
I definitely want to rename the Tiers… my working title for 1-10 was “Ordinary” tier, but something like “Skilled” sounds more inspiring for sure.
It seems to me that there’s a bit of overlap between concepts like healing surges and action points, and hero points in other systems. Could all these “pick yourself up off the floor” points be variations on a theme?
Healing Surges: I think that they should exist, but be a resource with a lot more demand placed on it. Sure, you can use it to heal (but maybe on with rest?), but I’d also have powers and actions require them to used more often- such as all out runs during a chase, dramatic moments of bad-assery, and what have you. They may not even properly be called healing surges anymore, but the notion of having stamina to tap into for dire moments just seems to fit.
I say leave healing surges exactly as they are, though low-tier classes may get less of them.
If you have 4 hp, a healing surge is only 1 hp.
For having it make sense in the low tier, just remember, at that level hp is less damage, and more weariness and fatigue. No matter how unfantastic and lethal you want the game to be, resting still should let you become less tired.
.-= Graham´s last blog ..CriticalAnkleBites and ChattyDM pretend to be journalists =-.
All in all, interesting approach. Looks like I have to keep reading to see where this is going.
What about naming the Tiers Amateur Tier (1-10), Professional Tier (11-20) and Legend Tier (21-30).
I’d say make healing surges work as in D&D for out of combat healing, but when used to heal in combat (in a scene) make them give temporary hit points that go away at the end. Depending on how gritty you want the game to be you can make people who would die when the healing surge go away actually die, or just fall unconscious at 0 hp.
And I love the names proposed by Zaha, Amateur, Professional and Legend tiers sound really nice!
I’m liking what I’m hearing quite a lot here. I had a thought on how to work powers and such. The 4th Edition system can support classless play with some monkeying, and I think that a modern-style game could really go that way. Here’s how I would do it:
When you create your character, you choose your hero type, using the same basic types presented with the d20 Modern classes. This initial choice would provide bonuses that you would get above and beyond what a normal character would get. For example, let’s say all characters get X hit points at 1st level and Y hit points per level, 3 trained skills, 1/2 level attack bonus/defenses bonus, and the same spread of powers that a D&D character would get in terms of at-will, per scene, and per session. If you choose to be a Strong Hero, you’d get a bonus to Strength, training in Athletics, a few bonus hit points/hit points per level, and some sort of strength-oriented per scene power. Tough would get more hit points than anyone else, a high Fortitude, training in Endurance, and maybe some sort of temporary hit point-granting power. And so on. In effect, these types would function a little more like races than like classes.
As far as power acquisition goes, the various powers would be divided into a number of power trees, each with two or three powers at each power-granting level. As you said, these would be mixtures of attack and utility at various levels, making no particular distinction between the two. Your choice of hero type determines which power trees you have access to, but you can spend a feat to gain access to additional trees, allowing a multiclassing system more similar to that of d20 Modern than D&D. Perhaps there would be additional “multiclassing” feats that would grant some of the starting benefits of a different hero type; a Fast Hero could, for example, take a feat that grants him the per scene power of a Tough Hero, though maybe as a per session power.
At any rate, this is something I’d really like to see come to fruition. If you like my ideas, and you’d like my help on this project, send me an email. If, for some reason, you can’t access my email from this post, go to my website (www.gamecrafters.net). You’ll find it there.
Brian
.-= Brian´s last blog ..Solos, pilfering content, and a session report =-.
I’d keep the terminology encounter/daily for ease sense. I understand what you mean, but sometimes changing terminology like that doesn’t add anything extra. I can’t imagine a majority of 4E players ditching the encounter/daily so why bother. In general, I think your “I don’t want to just reskin” philosophy is good – but this seems like you’re reskinning.
Looking forward to what you come up with!
Wow! Lots of good stuff to talk about here.
Carey: A lot of systems do combine them, but healing surges tend to be used more as a measure of fatigue whereas action points are used to do cool things. Combining them may still be the answer, but I’d have to think about it.
zaha: Amateur, Professional, and Legendary sound great to me! Officially adopted for now.
Aenar: Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I like using temporary hit points as “vitality” and HP as actual “wounds” (roughly.)
Brian: Our approaches aren’t too far off… next Friday I plan to post the classes and would love your feedback on them, and I’ll follow up with you.
Hawke: I see what you’re saying, but the per scene/per session end up having a few different effects in game play. Per Scene especially, if there’s a Per Scene healing power it can’t just be used over and over to heal the party, like a Per Encounter power can. It also eliminates some of those tempo issues of having to wait 5 minutes between encounters/scenes. Playtesting may well prove your point and have everyone calling them Dailies and such anyway, but I’d like to try it.
I’m definitely going to pay close attention to this. I like the tactical and dynamic feel of 4e combat, and would love to see it in a Modern or better yet SciFi/Cyberpunk setting.
On the issue of Healing Surges I certainly agree with the idea that they need to be changed somehow, but limiting them or HP might prove to be problematic. In Modern games there is always the impulse to make it realistic so that taking a single bullet is incapacitating or lethal, but don’t for get that taking a single sword blow or arrow is just as deadly. Realism for realism’s sake has been a trend in Video Games, particularly First Person Shooters, for a while and it doesn’t necessarily translate into more fun, look at how prevalent the mechanic of regenerating health is in the most popular FPSs on consoles and PCs. Healing Surges serve the same function, and changing or eliminating them could drastically change not only how lethal combat is, but how dynamic and fun combat is.
One thing that I’d suggest be lifted almost wholesale from 4e is the recently released Skill based Utility Powers, on top of a selection of Powers based on Class, Skill based power could add a lot to the level of customization and specialization.
I can’t wait see what you come up with!
Dave – very much looking forward to seeing what you come up with. As you know, class design (especially when it comes to differentiating the mechanics of classes as much as possible) is my specialty.
One of the things that I think will be most challenging is going to having some sort of gradual introduction to upper tiers of play. I understand the motivation in separating them this way, but it might be very difficult to make it so cut and dry to where players, seemingly overnight, go from ordinary to extraordinary and get introduced to a handful of new mechanics.
I know nothing about d20 Modern but I’m a bit bored of the fantasy setting. Josh and I have been talking about wanting to play a sci-fi or modern setting for quite some time.
.-= Tonester´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
@CharlesWK: I will let Dave answer for his own ideas, but I believe you’ll be disappointed if you’re hoping this will translate the tactics and dynamics of 4E combat to a Modern setting. For one it’s dropping the battle mat entirely which eliminates much of 4E’s tactical considerations right there.
Obviously I’m helping Dave some with at least the brainstorming for this project, and I imagine I’ll be playtesting it too, so it’s great to read everyone’s comments here and thank you all for the input!
An idea I had a while back for a more abstract combat system was to change the turn from detailing specific actions over a couple seconds to focusing on the characters Tactics over a longer (maybe 10-15 second) turn.
It would start with basic areas: Engage Melee, Engage Ranged, Full Evasion, things like that. With training/feats, these tactics would expand or offer new options.
CharlesWK: Considering I came up with skill powers before I read that article, expect something along those lines 🙂 Tactical combat without battlemap is possible (at higher tiers) but may not be the focus. We’ll see when I get there!
Tonester: Ultimately, you’re describing a problem with any system with Levels, but there definitely will be some advice for transitioning between tiers, just as there are similar discussions for 4e.
Nothing of real substance to add, other than the fact that I am eagerly looking forward to more along these lines – I’ve been tempted, after starting up Champions Online, to try and do some sort of superhero version of 4th edition rules. This could end up close enough, though.
.-= Jamie Smith´s last blog ..First Time for Everything =-.
There is actually a 4th Edition Cyberpunk game in the works by the same makers of Amethyst. It’s called NeuroSpasta and it also works as a 4th Edition modern game. It’s going through testing now…