A week ago we were quickly approaching the first anniversary of the 4th Edition of Dungeon & Dragons release, which has now passed and the results are in for our poll asking for opinions on the new edition so far. Just over half of the 381 voters chose ‘strongly like’ (52%), which is a majority but not a shattering lead which is right around where I would have guessed it to be. 24% of you chose simply ‘like’ citing a number of differences or problems with the system but overall still a favorable reaction to it, which gives us a total of 76% of you who like 4E for the most part. 8% of you were neutral/undecided or don’t care about 4E, while 10% dislike it and 6% strongly dislike it which gives us a total of 16% who don’t like 4E very much or at all. I have to say I’m a bit surprised at the 76 – 8 – 16 spread, especially considering the seemingly rampant resurgent edition wars going on recently.
For the past week I’ve been hearing faint whispers around the edges of my geek-radar (standard issue) about E3 going on, but it feels like this year everything is far more muted than it has been in previous years. The only thing that I’ve really heard a lot of excitement about is the new Star Wars: The Old Republic trailer, which does look extremely badass and the changes to the MMO style really intrigue me. This all led me in a discussion with Dave to wonder if less people have really been paying attention to E3 this year, if there haven’t been any ground breaking announcements, or if I’m just out of the loop! What I’d like to ask this week is what you’ve heard from E3 that excites you, or if you haven’t heard anything at all:
[poll id=”127″]
Nintendo’s E3 news – A new Metroid game produced by Team Ninja (trailer here), Super Mario Galaxy 2 and New Super Mario Bros. game (trailer here) for the Wii, Wii Vitality Sensor
Microsoft’s E3 news – Left 4 Dead 2 now with new zombies and melee weapons (chainsaw! – trailer here), Project Natal (trailer here), Assassin’s Creed 2 (trailer here)
Sony’s E3 news – God of War 3 (trailer here), new PSP Go!, Eyetoy, Final Fantasy XIII & XIV, Uncharted 2, The Last Guardian (trailer here)
Feel free to share any other news or announcements from E3 2009 that we didn’t list here or that you’re particularly excited about!
I like the idea of N having another Super Mario Galaxy and A Side scrolling Mario platformer as well. But WTF is up with the vitality sensor? I can’t see more then a few games using it. Less supported then the Wiichat mic?
I voted for Nintendo almost entirely because of a new Metroid game (and produced by Team Ninja at that)! Yea, I’m easy, that’s all it takes.
@Darvin: I totally agree, it’s like they’re trying to out-do the Wii in the WTF department, but I don’t see this one turning out as well!
New Super Mario was enough to make me vote Nintendo, but overall, I was underwhelmed, especially at everyone’s attempt to out-Wii the Wii. I think it’ll be at least the next generation of consoles before that technology becomes good enough for a higher level of gaming. Also, I wanted something more awesome out of the Xbox on par with Netflix (I was hoping Hulu), but instead, we got Facebook and Twitter updates, something I can do easier on my phone.
The only reason I cared about anything was the Mario news. I was just pondering last night how ridiculous it was that since Mario 64, THE defining game of most 20-something’s childhoods, we’ve had only two proper console Mario games – Sunshine, which I just couldn’t get into, and Galaxy, which is AWESOME. I could not be happier about the news of a sequel, because Galaxy really took me back to Christmas morning, opening up the 64 and having the time of my life.
Also:
FF14 as an MMO: I sure hope they learned some lessons from WoW. FF11 sucked.
Microsoft won easily in my book but thats probably because I think Mario games are pretty boring as of late 🙂
Natal goes way beyond motion control… its like turning your entire playing space into a virtual stage. This will change the way games are played way beyond the point of the Wii-mote…. hell, this will change the way people live.
I think people here aren’t that impressed by it because they either don’t understand it or they just didn’t bother to read into it. Its truly incredible tech.
Natal makes the Wii-mote and EyeToy look like the old atari joystick.
Hardware aside, I think all 3 companies were pretty even. God of War 3, Alan Wake, Uncharted 2, FF announcements, new Super Mario, etc.
@Tonester: Actually I’ve read up on Natal and I understand it, but I’m still not impressed. Why? Because I’ll believe it when I see it in action outside of media hype. 😛
@Tonester –
“hell, this will change the way people live.”
Debatable.
For instance, the same thing was said about video phones. But how many of those do you see installed?
And how about voice recognition/speech-to-text programs.
Both, they were neat, but they ultimately didn’t add anything to the experience. And since people vary so wildly from each other, text-to-speech proved to unreliable to use.
Will Natal add something to the experience? Will it be able to handle the massive variations of the human form? Or will it just be a gimmick that doesn’t work nearly as well as advertised?
Well, we’ll just have to wait and see, won’t we?
Graham´s last post: Damn you, Dave! You and your… logic…
I formalized a small rant about PSP Go already, so, you guys will debate that one perhaps in the near future 🙂 Sony’s Final Fantasy and God of War showings were predictable, but it doesn’t mean those games aren’t going to be awesome, judging by the quality of their predecessors.
On Microsoft’s front, Left 4 Dead 2 looks more like an expansion pack to me. Valve would do best pricing this one less than it did for Left 4 dead. The Natal 3d camera thingy looks interesting enough for me to pique my curiousity. Essentially, none of us here can really judge how well it works until we get our hands on it – its real-world capabilities will be the biggest judge of things.
Essentially, none of us want it to be like this failed accessory:
http://www.screwattack.com/AVGN/2006/PowerGlove
The question I have is with game compatibility: Will game makers give us free patches for current games (such as the burnout paradise demo that was being shown), or will it be a cash-in excuse like Nintendo’s re-releases of the gamecube games adding wiimote support. Microsoft’s netflix upgrade is a welcome addition, though. It’s annoying as hell with its current system to add movies to watch.
Nintendo was also a mixed bag for me. New Super Mario Bros Wii looks exactly like the DS New Super Mario Bros. It already has multiplayer modes in just like the Wii version. The DS version is 2 player local play, and the 4 player capability of the Wii. Is this extra two players enough to get me excited about it? …not yet, anyways. New Super Mario Bros for the DS felt like a re-imagining of the original Super Mario Bros world. It’s a wonderful game. Therefore, the Wii version SHOULD have been a re-imagining of Super Mario Bros 2 or 3 if it wanted to be an interesting sequel. The new metroid game seems like a cash-in…because it is. Red Steel 2 could have been a really interesting Wii sequel with the Motion Plus compatibility, was there any press on this game?
There have been a number of tech sites all praising Natal after getting hands on use of it. They have also pointed out some of the bugs but the potential of it is quite impressive.
I find it odd that people are still excited about the Wii and its motion sensing but when MS comes out with something far beyond the wii-mote and its capabilities they are suddenly pessimistic. I always saw the Wii-mote as a bit of a gimmick and from the gaming reviews and blogs I read that seems to be somewhat true. Nintendo coming out with more Mario games? Really?
Of all the companies MS is the only one to bring something really innovative to the table. You may claim it isn’t new or innovative because Nintendo did it already but that is a flawed argument. Blizzard doesn’t create new ideas, they innovate and perfect. They take ideas which other people have developed and make them better – perhaps Microsoft is doing this. This method of perfecting can be just as important as having the idea. If they pull it off then it really will be a big deal. It may not just be a case of trying to outdo Nintendo, that is unfairly dismissive.
This is all coming from someone who generally speaking hates MS and probably won’t buy Natal.
In regards to the “life changing” I think Tonester is looking more long term. The implications of this technology are incredibly far reaching. If this is true then a number of REALLY hard problems in computer science may have been solved to some degree.
joshx0rfz´s last post: Inq. of the Week: Opinions of E3 2009?
@joshxorfz –
Actually, why I’m skeptical is because this has been tried in the past, not by the Wii, but by other companies, such as Sony with it’s eyeToy.
I have no doubt that MS has made it better (for instance, it uses two camera, giving it 3d vision in the room). But I still have my doubts as to how it will play out.
Specifically, what happens when you take two teenage boys, and tell them to play a competitive game that relies on the cameras being able to capture your movements?
You get blocking of cameras and potential violence, is what you get.
That, of course, is just for playing games. Though if it works well, and you’re playing with mature people, it definitely opens up a lot of possibilities.
Personally, I’d love to have a minority-report-style computer system to work with. I’ve just seen too many products with similar promises fall short of their goals.
Despite video phones being available (I’ll bet some of the people reading this have cell phones that can do video calls), we don’t use them. Despite smart houses being around and not-nearly-as-expensive-as-you-might-think, we mostly stick with light switches and thermostats. Perhaps more apt, touch screen monitors have been around for some time now, yet you only tend to see those at in-store simplified terminals.
As such, I want to believe it. It’s just going to take some more exposure before I herald it as the second coming.
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If this is true then a number of REALLY hard problems in computer science may have been solved to some degree.
See, that’s why I have a hard time believing it sight unseen, though.
The Wii never claimed to solve anything difficult. The Wii just said “swing the remote to swing your golf club” and we said “hey, that’s neat.” It was a gimmick, and the sane among us all understood that.
Natal is claiming to have economical solutions to:
– facial recognition
– individual subtle movement tracking
– real-time response (or at least damn near it) to both of these things
all of which have stymied programmers for years.
Like I said, if true, this definitely has great implications.
And if only half-true, it means we’re still making big strides.
But will Natal (not further advancements of this technology, but Natal itself) change how we live? Doubtful.
Will Natal (not further advancements of this technology, but Natal itself) change the way we interact with out Xboxes? Very possible.
Will the technology, sufficiently refined, change how we live?
Again, doubtful.
A keyboard will still be the quickest form of text entry, barring perfect voice recognition, and the fallback form regardless (yay laryngitis). Unless eye tracking is included (adding one more thing to the list of programming dilemmas solved), the system probably won’t be precise enough to do any fine manipulation, so a mouse will be around for a while.
Like I said, though, it will be cool if this succeeds. I just doubt it will change the way we live.
At least, not yet.
Graham´s last post: Damn you, Dave! You and your… logic…
Ugh – this is what I mean by people obviously haven’t read up on the tech or seen what others have had to say.
1) Most people have experienced zero lag. One person said there may have been a very small, but nearly inperceivable, amount of lag.
2) Nothing can get in the way of the cameras…. except for heat. They are infrared. It uses heat signatures, 3d vision, facial recognition, etc. Hell, the device still works in complete darkness, blinding light, partial light, with furniture in the way, etc.
3) Unlike the Wii and EyeToy promotion and marketing materials (when those things were first announced), Microsoft actually let several independent people test it for 5 minutes on 2 different applications – PGR (an old game) and a little gimmicky brickbreaker game. Every single person who tried it said it was unbelievably smooth, accurate, and amazing.
Wii and EyeToy promised the world, didn’t let anyone actually try them, and then released later with a fraction of what they initially promised. MS hyped it up, let people test it, people are believers, and its still a year (or more) from release.
As for body stuff, it basically maps 48 major joints. This is like a dedicated motion capture device in your living room, attached to your avatar/in-game character, and processed via dedicated hardware (this is why it can work on already existing games without overhead processing).
The best part? You can still use any controller conceivable to man while in this “virtual stage”. If MS releases a pointing device, it will work with Natal. Imagine playing Call of Duty with a motion controller and Natal.
Crouch to crouch.
Jump to jump.
Bring your arms up to bring up iron sites.
Bring arms down to hip to fire from the hip.
Afraid the enemy will hear you? Use motion-captured hand signals that translate perfectly into the game (stop, move forward, pointing, saluting, etc).
Bow, kick, use your rifle-but, etc.
All you need the motion controller to do is aim and fire… just like a real gun.
The possibilities are truly limitless. I really see the potential for this moving beyond the 360 and into the next gen. As the 360 connects to more and more of our entertainment spaces (streaming movies, on demand games, twitter, facebook, internet, mp3s, etc) you now have an AI of sorts which welcomes you, allows you to use voice commands, loads up preferences based on your facial recognition, body type, etc.
In the end, there has to be software support – that is my only concern for this gen (it will probably be a standard feature in next gen).
But yeah, I can see how a new Mario Game would trump this… hehe.
1) Yes, I’ve read about it, though I haven’t been going out of my way to do so. Good to hear about the lag.
2) Infrared, good to hear, but also brings its own set of technical difficulties.
3) Again, good to hear, though this still doesn’t mean it will change how we live.
Yes, this is definitely more advanced than the Wii or EyeToy. Nobody’s disputing that (here). Like I said, if it ends up working as well as advertised (letting a small group of people try at E3 is not proof it works in all real world situations, to me, and I’d like to see more), it will be kinda neat.
But as for your example of playing Call of Duty with it?
Yeah, that would get really freaking annoying to ever play for more than 1/2 hour. For me, it would end up being a gimmicky control scheme that I would turn off for most games, only using it to navigate the Xbox menus and play casual games.
Yes, it’s neat.
Yes, there is great potential for technological advancement if it works how the previews have stated (especially if it’s economical).
No, I probably wouldn’t play many games with it.
No, it likely won’t revolutionize how we play games.
Graham´s last post: Damn you, Dave! You and your… logic…
And what difficulties come up with InfraRed? The example you gave of the 2 boys blocking cameras… how is that any different than someone stealing your Wiimote or unplugging your controller?
“Yeah, that would get really freaking annoying to ever play for more than 1/2 hour. For me, it would end up being a gimmicky control scheme that I would turn off for most games, only using it to navigate the menus and play casual games.”
That sounds awfully like the Wiimote – which also revolutionized the way we play games.
The COD is just one example – the possibilities are really limitless because it isn’t just about control. Its about space, its like… the earliest stages of the holodeck. Combine this with Milo (which I AM skeptical about) and you have the stuff we’ve been reading about in Sci-Fi books for quite some time… but it will be in your living room.
And if you don’t think it will change the way games are played, then nothing I’ll say will seem meaningful at all.
Gaming is in the midst of a huge transition and the benefits of it have already transcended gaming in general. Ask terrorists who train people with shooters or the military who takes gamers straight out of highschool and makes them pilots of unmanned drones or doctors who use game-like controls and virtualization to perform surgeries that weren’t even humanly possible 10 years ago… let alone do them remotely.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I’m in a “whatever” mood…
The original Secret of Monkey Island is being re-released with an undated graphics engine this summer. A new installment in the series is availavle this fall. Oh em gee.
@Tonester: I agree with BOTH you and Graham in most respects, Natal could very likely revolutionize how we play games, but I’m not as in love with it as you clearly are because I don’t trust the full implementation of the product to marketing videos and 5-minute trials. It could revolutionize the way we live, though that’s unlikely, but I won’t get excited about that until it’s closer to release and more real. Before you say it IS real, there were people playing more than 5 minutes of Starcraft: Ghost and saying it was great. Where is it now? 😛
“That sounds awfully like the Wiimote – which also revolutionized the way we play games.”
Jumping in real life every time you want your character to jump? Ducking to make your character duck? That doesn’t sound like the Wiimote, it sounds like exercise, which is not something I always want to do when I’m playing a character who walks EVERYWHERE and jumps every 5 seconds. I’m with Graham on this one, it’s very cool, but most people would get tired with your typical game after a half an hour (think about Gears of War and how much running/ducking/standing is done within 10 minutes in that game).
“And if you don’t think it will change the way games are played, then nothing I’ll say will seem meaningful at all.”
Cry more n00b? 😀
“That sounds awfully like the Wiimote – which also revolutionized the way we play games.”
Yeah… which it didn’t do. It added a new, often optional, control scheme to Wii games, which more often than not is poorly implemented. In fact, the only times it’s been really implemented well tend to be in casual games or those first-party (Mario/Metroid/etc) games. This is why the news of new Mario/Metroid games has people excited, by the way.
“And if you don’t think it will change the way games are played, then nothing I’ll say will seem meaningful at all.”
Not true. In fact, you’ve already told me some information that I was not aware about it, which has alleviated a few of the potential issues I was seeing. I’m still hesitant, however, as to how well it will work as an in-game control scheme until I actually see it implemented, and not just with tech demos.
As for the difficulties with infrared, the main one is that infrared cameras tend to give less detail than normal ones. If it works, then fine, but infrared cameras do indeed bring a different set of challenges than regular cameras do.
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@Bartoneus –
I think we’re pretty much of the same opinion, with me maybe a tad more hesitant than you.
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@Monkey Island –
The original Secret of Monkey Island is being re-released with an undated graphics engine this summer. A new installment in the series is availavle this fall. Oh em gee.
…really? Freakin’ sweet.
Graham´s last post: Damn you, Dave! You and your… logic…
josx0rfz and I had a long talk about it yesterday, where he felt I didn’t have enough respect for the technology, which is partially true. While the game journalists who have been playing with it have been impressed, ultimately it’s still a tech demo, and I have to reserve a lot of judgment until we see a finished product. I think it’s pretty clear that Microsoft wouldn’t be working on this technology (at least, for the Xbox) were it not for the Wii doing it first and have some success. And while Microsoft does put out good stuff, it usually takes them a while to work out the bugs, and they’re a terrible company for usability, both things I think are going to be very important in getting people to use a new, refined technology like this.
Also, the Xbox is a few years old now, and by the time Natal comes out, will be even older… I’d much rather have it coming out on something with a better processor, which is why I think the next generation of consoles is going to be a better fit for this.
The purpose of separating Natal into a separate device is that the processing of movements is dealt with so that the 360 does not have to handle it. You can still make great games for the 360 with the current technology. Wii is a good example of upgrading hardware slightly and adding a new device. MS can encourage growth in Natal development so that by the time the next gen comes around everything will be going full steam.
Writing decent games which take advantage of Natal’s abilities will be the real challenge. Nintendo hasn’t really managed it for their controller (from what I see) so perhaps Microsoft will run into similar problems. Let’s just hope Peter Molyneaux isn’t the only person developing for it…
Here is the “tech demo” on national TV…. live.
http://kotaku.com/5286751/ever-wanted-to-see-what-project-natal-looks-like-on-jimmy-fallon?autoplay=true
And to think… there is still a long time before this comes out. 🙂
Yeah, caught that last night.
Definitely still a few bugs with the implementation (at one point, Jimmy was holding his hands vertically above each other while driving, yet he was going straight, and there were a couple times when the avatar just completely spazzed out, as I assume the system couldn’t figure out what the player was doing), but it’s a good start for sure.
I have to wonder what was with the red jumpsuits, though.
I think the red jumpsuits had to do with ensuring the cameras picked them up in a completely open space (shrug).
The thing I noticed was how the model was in 3D – if you moved your leg behind another leg, it accurately showed it.
I didn’t see it ever being unresponsive, but I did see it spaz out once or twice.
And again – the Call of Duty was just an example. It isn’t like Natal will only be used for FPS games. I play my XBox games with a PC Mousse and Keyboard and I’m competitive so I probably wouldn’t use it for that either, but that isn’t the point.
Now – can we quit talking/arguing about it for a year? 😉