Hopefully Dave’s curiosity was answered when he wanted to know how many of you went to see Watchmen. 65% of you went to see it opening weekend, while 23% didn’t see it that weekend but plan on seeing it, leaving only 13% who don’t plan on seeing it at all. I saw the movie at a midnight showing with Dave, and while I enjoyed it quite a bit the length of the movie really gets to you when it comes closer and closer to 3am.
Tomorrow the Player’s Handbook 2 comes out, opening up a lot of new opportunities to 4th Edition players with new races and classes. What I’ll be most interested to see is the race-class combinations that come up and the interesting characters they create between the core material and the new material presented in the PHB2.
This week we’d like to find out which potential power source is most anticipated, without speculating yet exactly which classes or races might be in the assumed Player’s Handbook 3. This poll consists of the un-released power sources that are listed in the PHB, because that seems like the best place to start.
[poll id=”117″]
When you begin to consider some potential race and power source combinations, the PHB3 starts to look potentially very badass, such as Psionics classes in the same book with expanded Githyanki and Githzerai stats. I imagine they’ll add some races that aren’t in the Monster Manual, such as Elan or Dromites (or Thri-kreen!), but no matter what I’m extremely excited by the possibilities. Add in the possibility of either a Ki Ninja or a Shadow Ninja class, and I’m sold!
You whiners have gotten your druids and bards, now give me my monk! (Yes, I am aware of the up coming preview =)
Milambus´s last post: Introducing new players to DnD 4E
I miss my psionics…
Reverend Mike´s last post: on roleplaying
Shadow really strikes me as trying too hard. You can be evil just fine with any of the other power sources. Maybe it’ll look less cheesy when we have some actual information on it, but I’m having difficulty giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Elemental seems a little unnecessary, since, don’t wizards already do that? If it’s more than just doing lots of elemental damage, well.. I dunno. I don’t see the need for it, but I have an easier time giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Psionic seems legit, and I’m hoping 4e can pull it off without being broken.
I have no particular feelings on ki. It seems straightforward, but on the other hand, I don’t think it’s needed, since it’s a bit of a blend between martial and divine, and we have both of those.
@Swordgleam –
Shadow doesn’t have anything to do with being evil. That’s where classes like the Shadowdancer would belong, for instance. That said, I don’t really see the point, either.
re: Psionics – Since the power source is mostly just flavour text in 4e, it’d be hard to make Psionics broken solely due to it being Psionics. So I wouldn’t worry, there.
Graham´s last post: The PHB2 Druid – Nature’s Schizophrenic
I like Psionics in 3.5e mostly because it uses a vastly improved game mechanic (though I enjoy a lot of the flavor elements, such a not having to wiggle your fingers and having crystals instead of wands and staves). The problem is, this improved game mechanic wouldn’t exit in 4e–unless they actually start breaking their power module (unlikely, though I think it’s necessary), Psionics are just going to be another power with some neat flavor. Sure it might have a twist (probably “augment” type abilities based on the ‘convert your character’ articles–though really that’s not what makes Psionics cool), but it isn’t going to be a drastic improvement of the game the way 3.5e Psionics were.
So while I am curious to see what they do with Psionics, I’m holding out hope that they make it a new adjusted subsystem so they can start tweaking the base mechanics of 4e that need some work (i.e., the power system), and thus Psionics lands in its own book. Won’t happen, but I can dream, can’t I?
Thus I voted for a Ki power source. I’m interested to see how they can make what’s close to another “martial” source, and I’m eager to see some more characters that get up close and personal rather than blasting enemies with magic energy from the back lines.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and there’s nothing broken about Psionics in 3.5 ;p
Psionics – because maybe a Dark Sun 4e Players Guide/Campaign Guide would not be far behind (also looking forward to seeing Thri-kreen).
Ki – because kung fu monks and ninjas are cool. Plus I loved Oriental Adventures (Kara Tur; did not play in Rokugan). It was my all time favorite campaign.
CharlieAmra´s last post: Path Ends
The way I see it, though I could be wrong, is that the next PHB will either focus on Oriental adventures type classes and races or psionics.
Whoa, in a sudden burst of insight, I think it will be based on things that focus on the mind- whether it is powers of the mind (psionics_, mentally training as much as physically (Ki), or tricking the mind (shadow)
hmm… interesting…
MacGuffin´s last post: The terrible truth
For Ki I’d like to see: Monk (Controller – why not their role was always screwy anyway!), Ninja (Striker), Samurai (Defender), and some Ki Leader class.
As far as Psionics/Dark Sun: I’d love to see them figure out Wild Talents (for all!), Dragon Sorcerers, and Avangions (sp?) for 4E. There whole excuse for uber powers was mastering BOTH psionics and magic. I feel like just a “Dragon King” epic destiny doesn’t do the flavor of the setting justice.
Well, the whole power source thing is mostly a way to classify the fluff side of the powers… a general “Theme” or what have you. It’s incredibly unlikely that you’ll see a “Psionics” book ala 3e with it’s own power system outside the standard 4e one. Just ways to move beyond the standard classes filling the roles.
That said, I look forward to all of it, really. I like options. More flavors the better. (If forced to pick I’d prolly go with shadow, then elemental)
justaguy´s last post: What a long strange trip it’s been…
I’m really hoping that psionics will be the way they’ll go for the next power source. I can see a specialty campaign setting (Oriental Adventures, Mark IV)using a Ki power source, but like Swordgleam said, Shadow as a power source is just trying too hard.
Elemental is too close to Primal, in my opinion. I think some kind of “spark” or “science” power would be an interesting add on. I think it would work particularly well with the Eberron campaign setting or a setting that utilized steam punk like elements.
Great discussion. It’ll be interesting to see what develops.
Dead Orcs´s last post: The Color of Power
hmm… elemental does debatably overlap other power sources: arcane and primal.
I’d guess that elemental is going to be chaos based, but sorcerer is already arcane despite it’s wild mage option. personally I think it fits a couple of the OA classes, but that’s it.
MacGuffin´s last post: The terrible truth
A science-y power source would be cool; alchemist as arcane strikes me as not being quite right. You could argue that a steampunk warrior would be martial, but having its own power source would give it a different feel.
I agree with Justaguy, I find the power sources to be very artificial. I’d really rather they just say this class is a defender and this one is a striker etc. I mean is martial really a power source? I suppose it represents the training received, but couldn’t a ranger just as easily be a primal power source?
Wimwick´s last post: How Many Classes Are Too Many?
Well, I feel compelled to point out that I don’t have a problem with their arbitrariness… it’s just that the power sources aren’t a system in and of themselves, it’s just a convenient way to group certain types of classes/powers.
justaguy´s last post: What a long strange trip it’s been…
@highbulp: I’d hesitate more before calling 3.5e psionics a “vastly improved game mechanic”, but I am really excited to see if Wizards uses Psionics as an opportunity to manipulate the 4E system in new and interesting ways. Just the thought of somehow combining the power points concept with 4E’s power based system really interests me.
@MacGuffin: “Whoa, in a sudden burst of insight, I think it will be based on things that focus on the mind”
I think you might be onto something there!
@justaguy & Wimwick: Right now the power sources really are just a way of classifying classes (hah!), but what if in future products they introduce feats, paragon paths, epic destinies (at least one for Martial already exists) that require a specific power source, then they start to mean more and also effect multi-classed characters in interesting ways. You could have a Martial Master epic destiny that requires you to be in two Martial classes at the same time (assuming that wasn’t already done in Martial power, i’ll have to check it sounds familiar to me).
Also, everyone, keep in mind that 4E is new and while you might THINK that Elemental and Shadow power sources overlap with things that already exist, they could take those names in completely new directions and surprise us all. Just to throw my initial thoughts out there Elemental could focus strongly on the concept of creation and metamorphosis, rather than just the elements while with Shadow I have to agree it feels like a weaker concept to me.
@Bartoneus: I meant Psionics was a vast improvement over the 3.5 spell slot system, in my (and my players’) opinion. The power system in 4e is pretty good, but flawed IMO (but that’s another discussion we can have at some point). But yeah, tweaking it around would be interesting.
And isn’t Primal supposed to be about metamorphosis/transformation abilities?
@bartoneus: “I think you might be onto something there!”
I can’t tell if you are serious or being sarcastic. XD
and personally, the shadow power source seems more legit to me due to the shadow caster from tome of magic.
but, with a few exceptions, power source is mostly fluff. If you wanted to, you could probably rework a martial class to be of the Ki power source. Like reworking the fluff of a fighter to make it act like a samurai, using Ki to power your attacks rather than martial strength.
one of the interesting things about 4e is how much of it is fluff and how much you can change just by adjusting the fluff. Want a divine bard? POW! Sing worship hymns and use a holy symbol and you are there! dang it, now I have to write a post with some alternate power source ideas…
MacGuffin´s last post: St Patrick’s Day RPG Blog carnival: Leprechaun Racial Stats!
Well, I mean at the very least the different power sources do have a bit of difference mechanically- they all have their “hallmarks.” Divine classes getting Channel Divinity is the most obvious, but there are others. I’m still trying to figure out Primal beyond “has powers named after animals.”
@Bartoneus
More like YOUR face. (lol, I think you just started the lamest flamewar ever)
@The Game
hmm… that seems to have slipped my mind… simply remedied, for a divine bard you could make words of friendship into a channel divinity and add another from one of the divine classes (such as divine mettle or divine fortune)
what would you say these “hallmarks” are for martial or arcane?
MacGuffin´s last post: St Patrick’s Day RPG Blog carnival: Leprechaun Racial Stats!
One interesting thing to note:
All Divine classes lean a bit to Leader.
All Arcane classes lean a bit to Controller.
All Martial classes lean a bit to Striker.
Do the Primal classes lean to Defender? I’d have to read the Barbarian and Shaman more to decide, but the Druid does a fair amount.
“@highbulp: No. It isn’t.
@MacGuffin: Both. Also, your face.”
Whoever made that comment using my handle and gravatar, it wasn’t me. You could tell because it didn’t have the (Author) tag on it.
@MacGuffin: I was being serious, I think you’re actually onto something there. As far as power sources, I agree with what Dave and Graham are saying, they are MOSTLY fluff but there are still enough reasons and distinctions between them that I think they are very useful and good for the game from a design perspective.
@highbulp: Dave loves the 3.5 psionics rules, I personally didn’t get to use them, I only played a 3.0 psion which was fun but still had a lot of problems.
Yea, that was me using Bartoneus’ stuff…just messing with the system a bit…it’s in my rogue-ish nature, you know… ;P
No harm, no foul me thinks…sorry about that, Bart…won’t happen again…
Reverend Mike´s last post: Demotivational Monday: From Mordith’s Journal
Martial classes also don’t get a variety of energy types, while Arcane classes rely heavily on different energy types for damage. (Making the Elemental power source, as noted above, a bit confusing).
You know, I have never once in any edition (2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e) had even the slightest inclination to use psionics. They never felt like they belonged in my fantasy games.
Shadow, however, oh yeah… I’d be down with some shadow power source.
@The Game: Yeah, I noticed that. Arcane is mostly force, lightning, cold, acid, and fire, while Divine is almost entirely radiant (or, assumedly, necrotic if you’re evil), and Martial rarely has damage type keywords. There is some overlap – a few Arcane powers with radiant, and Thundering gets thrown about – but energy types do seem tied to power source thus far.
(or, assumedly, necrotic if you’re evil)
Actually, still radiant if you’re evil. While necrotic has ties to undeath and necromancy, radiant is pure divine/astral energy (not just holy). So a cleric of an evil god that doesn’t have anything to do with undeath would still channel radiant energy.
It just probably wouldn’t be sparkly and gold.
Graham´s last post: The PHB2 Druid – Nature’s Schizophrenic
@Bartoneus
yes, I agree that it is not all fluff, I’m just saying that enough of it is that you can change things around enough to make it another power source fairly easily.
and at some level I may have noticed that it lacked something (intelligence) that should have tipped me off that it was not really you, but the comment was too silly not to reply to.
@The Game
Shadow and Ki look like they will be awesome(which one gets ninja though?). psionic, while it might not fit a typical high fantasy, should be pretty cool, but elemental gives me doubts. The way they originally described the sorcerer made it sound like it could be elemental, but as we all know it is still arcane. They probably have an idea of what they are going to do with it, but I can’t see what it might be other than a few possible classes…
from OA wu jen and shugenja, somewhere they mentioned an elementalist class, and I think some people have speculated a Sha-ir class might fit as well.
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It is possible that some of the new power sources will overlap with existing ones, with the idea that in any given campaign you will only use one of two overlapping ones. I’m not confident about that, but it is one possibility.