That perfidious and oh so diabolical Yax has been reading all those “WotC presents” books and, through his Red Dragon comic-relief Minion Expy, has announced that our cherished Wizards on the Coast are revamping the dragons.
One thing that broke my heart a bit (the cynics will say that WotC has ripped out theirs long ago…) was the disappearance of the Bronze and Brass Dragons (among other things like draconic alignment restrictions).
Thing is, I really like good-aligned metallic Dragons. It’s part of D&D’s vestigial fluff that I grew up with.
I have been around long enough to play the first Dragonlance modules. Who remembers Blaize, the sassy brass dragon dodging Dragon Highlord Verminaard in a canyon?
I have read the Draconomicon cover to cover. Twice
My current pet NPC is a Bronze Dragon named Plantagonox!
You can guess that this not a design decision that I shall embrace enthusiastically.
However, instead of whining and throwing a tantrum, I’ll make an homage to my soon-to-be-lost Bronze Dragon by channeling my disappointment into creating the 1st unofficial D&D Bronze Dragon 3.5e-to-4e Conversion kit (Sorry Greywulf!)
If you love good dragon like I do, don’t forget to Bookmark this post!
😉
All of this done totally outside of the 4e OGL of course, since it’s not available to mere mortals yet.
Nemesis Aside: Even though I helped my Nemesis so HE could have it! Glad you’ll make it to 4e Mr. Baur, our Gen Con confrontation shall happen, once I’m done with Yax!.
So we take the 4e Copper Dragon stats who, if the 3.x thematic concepts are retained should have the following defining crunch and fluff characteristics:
Copper Dragons
Crunch:
- Size: Small (Did you know that Dragons come in 3 size, based on Wyrmling size?)
- Breath Weapons: Line of Acid, Cone of Slow gas
- Special abilites: Earth-themed Spell-like abilities
- Special Movement: Spider Climb ability
- Special Immunities: Acid
Fluff:
- Habitat: Warm Hills
- Personality: Incorrigible prankster
- Typical Alignment (because now metallic dragons can be evil, another archetype blown!): Chaotic Good
And we change them for the Bronze Dragon’s
Bronze Dragons
Crunch:
- Wyrmling Size: Medium
- Breath Weapons: Line of Lightning, Cone of Repulsion gas
- Special abilites: Alternate forms (Animal, Humanoid), Detect Thoughts, Water-themed spell like abilities
- Special Movement: Water Breathing
- Special Immunities: Electricity
Fluff:
- Habitat: Temperate Hills
- Personality: Curious observers and eager mercenaries for good causes
- Typical Alignment : Lawful Good
I’m now much more comfortable with hacking D&D to fit it to my (or my player’s) tastes. I won’t hesitate to start doing it as soon as 4e is ‘out of the box’. Since I find Bronze Dragons cooler from both a Crunch and a Fluff perspective than the copper ones , I am going to keep them in my game!
By the way, the the Bronze and Brass dragons will be replaced by Iron and Adamantine ones… which makes me ponder…
…
…
Does anyone else see it?
The 1st one who does and comments about it gets to choose the next tropes I tackle… or something…
I’m not sure if it’s what you mean, but they dropped the alloys. It’s in the book. Don’t give me credits.
Do I still get to choose the trope?
Killing the bronze dragons is pure evil, no matter which way it is looked at. I’d place their habitat in rivers, lakes, seas and even swamps, though.
Killing the absolute alignments, OTOH, I find solely a positive change.
It’s not quite that Yax… nice trt though…
Tommi: I just copied the Monster Manual entry… which is weird given that the Bronze Dragon is an aquatic-friendly dragon.
Your proposed habitat makes more sense…
… Although Graham was quick to point out that Water and Electricity is a bit of a weird mix scientifically speaking…
Both of the new Metallic Dragons relate in some way to a special material, Cold Iron and Adamantium.
So could there be a Mithril Dragon?
Oh Dave (welcome by the way!) you’re close…very close.
And you are right… we should expect a Mithril Dragon, and maybe a Darkwood one while were at it… (I credit Graham for this Joke)
I was ponderingon the five announced metallic dragons.
And Yax pointed out that 4e is getting rid of the alloy dragons…
(Damn! I feel like when I DM an investigation game.)
Largely irrelevant, and I know you’ve never been a fan of 2e… but did you ever read the Second Edition Draconomicon? Has some of the best Dragon Fluff from any edition…. It’s primarily a Forgotten Realms book, as I remember, but is compatible with everything.
Mercury?
I didn’t know such a book existed. And for dragons, I can read all the fluff there is to read (except Eragon… for the moment)
Dragon magazine had an article on Dragon psyche I liked a lot! So I’ll look up the 2nd Ed Draconomicon on Ebay…
Thanks Omnius…
Oh, and no… wrong track Omnius. Think pattern, or link… not missing dragons. 🙂
(Chatty’s legendary impatience makes him want to use the cluebat too fast!)
Sounds almost like a progression of the ages. Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age. So does that mean that we’ll have “Middle” aged dragons next :-).
Bad pun, badly formed, but that is about all I have on the dragon front.
🙂 … This is a clear (and bad) example of the DM having only one answer and players grasping at straws… a sign of bad adventure design and I take the blame.
The good dragons are going to be:
Platinum: as a God
Gold
Silver
Copper
Iron
Adamantine
(The carriage return is intentional and denotes a change of subcategory, not a missing dragon)
Let’s give people a few more chances and then I’ll give the ‘prize’ to the closest guess. So far Davetrollkin has it.
🙂
The first three are shiny. Iron isn’t. I don’t really play/remember about adamantine.
Close Darin.
Adamantine is a material available in D&D to make weapons and armour, so is (Cold)Iron.
Yes, I knew it was D&D. I just didn’t know its appearance.
So, is there going to be a large amount of dead dragons around, hunted for their raw materials? That’s going to stink.
Nice call on the alloys, Yax, now that I think about it “pure” metal is more satisfying.
I was thinking, both brass and bronze basically looked like gold and copper, so they were making dragon appearances less confusing.
However, I have no idea what adamantine looks like, so it’s hard to say if it’s easily confused with iron or platinum.
I’m glad to see you’re comfortable changing dragons to suit your world, Chatty! Dragons are so rich and full of flavor I think they should be at least semi-unique in each campaign. I know mine vary quite a bit (sometimes non-intelligent, sometimes they cannot take human form, I prefer the more “primal” dragon).
Omnius, I forgot all about the old mercury dragon. That was one of my favorites!
Darin: The simile of Dragons as Elephants is disturbing! Sorry for the unneeded clarification, I don’t always know the background of a new commenter… 🙂
And you made me realize that Adamantine’s color or look is not mentioned in the SRD. (Other than ‘This ultrahard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor’
Anyone else has a description (apart from Wolverine’s claws, but I believe that WotC’s Adamantine and Marvel’s Adamantium are two different fictitious metals)?
Uhh, duh, Iron and Adamantite are out because they’re not units of currency in D&D?
Now we just need Gold and Silver dragons to have Electrum babies.
I distinctly recall an Electrum Dragon somewhere in D&D’s history…
Last chance: What do all five 4e good dragons have in common (thematically speaking, metal non withstanding) in regards to PCs in a generic D&D world?
Don’t loot err look too far! 🙂
They are all the names of the metal used for types of currency. Copper coins, gold coins, etc.
Close enough…. John and Davetrollkin take the prize. I can spot when a game stalls for too long… 🙂
I realized while writing this that all of the 4e good dragons are going to be themed after loot material for D&D players .
3 precious metals types
2 special materials.
I do think that the Mithril dragon will make an appearance in a supplement or an online Web enhancement.
So you both get to chose the Tropes for the next trope post (or in John’s case, maybe request the next Silvervine post)
🙂
(yes Yan, I know you can roll Brass loot on the treasure charts… now go make that Samurai Warblade… good boy!)
This is one change for 4th Edition I like, a lot. We’ve long had non-aligned dragons in our D&D sessions as it keeps players on their toes which is always a good thing. While 90% of Gold dragons might well be Good-aligned, their definition of “goodness” might well differ with what puny pinkskins believe.
Heck, back in Classic D&D we had a Red Steel dragon, a homage to a certain metal from the Savage Coast campaign setting. That was both a chromatic //and// metallic dragon with certain rather unusual power. Unusual for a dragon, that is.
For my part, I’d be happy if they dropped the whole chromatic dragon nomeclature and replaced it with more elemental names. Give me Fire Drakes, Sea Wyrms, Sandragons, Forest Drakes and Swamp Dragons instead of Red, Blue, White, Green and Black. Give me multi-coloured dragons. Give me Fire Drakes with red scales and yellow undersides, or green-and-brown mottled Forest Drakes. Let the colours change with age, or shift according to mood. Give me dragons that are cool and fun to play without a spreadsheet and three open rulesbooks by my side.
In short, I don’t mind how much they change the dragons for 4e; it was one of the areas in 3.5e which desperately needed revision.
Meantime, I’ll keep on playing 5th Edition D&D! 🙂
“Give me Fire Drakes, Sea Wyrms, Sandragons, Forest Drakes and Swamp Dragons instead of Red, Blue, White, Green and Black.”
I agree with you on that. The distinction I would like to see is between dragons that are all powerful and magical, and dragons that are Big Dangerous Beasts to fight. I’m not going to be taking on a “traditional” dragon until I’m higher level, but I still want the glory of killing something bigger than me (if only slightly) and scaly.
In the vein of giant beast dragons, I’ve always enjoyed the linnorms in the Monster Manual 2. Or perhaps it was just the beautiful artwork…
Oriental Adventures (spectacular book!) has a great section on Asian themed dragons, plus awesome art.
I have a particular soft spot for the Fang Dragon (Draconomicon) myself, it’s all claws and spikes, deals damage as a dragon one size bigger than itself and drain constitution on a bite instead of a Breath Weapon…
On my side, as with all D&D fans I’m willing to bet, I’ve grown attached to some vestigial aspects of that game…. Dragons as they are being one of them.
Oh and by the way, thanks one and all for the excellent discussions on this thread…
I think I broke a comment record, even if we remove all of mine (14 so far!)
“Close enough…. John and Davetrollkin take the prize.”
Harumph, John and I said the same thing! I don’t need a prize anyway (grumble grumble grumble)
“back in Classic D&D we had a Red Steel dragon, a homage to a certain metal from the Savage Coast campaign setting”
But, Red Steel is rare… AND CURSED! (love that soundtrack)
Ahhhhh Dave….
Tell you what, pick a trope for a Mini-trope post I’ll dedicate the next one to you…. even if it’s about time traveling, sex-changing well-endowed characters!
I need to get my hands on these books somehow…. Usedbooks stores suck in Montreal, they are buried in bad French translations of English best sellers!
“Harumph, John and I said the same thing! I don’t need a prize anyway (grumble grumble grumble)” You are very right, I cede my prize and give you my full trope picking powers. However, I also want to make Chatty eat his words “even if it’s about time traveling, sex-changing well-endowed characters!”
and then again, I don’t want to see what that sparks . . .
I promise I’ll pick one simpler.
As far the books… well, I’ll see if I can help out if I can make it to GenCon. (The person I was planning on going with just joined the Air Force…)
I eat my words all the time…. that’s why I’m 25 lbs overweight 🙂
Dave the Game knows what I’m talking about and if he is evil, he just very well make me do it… (Ah he beat me to the reply!)
Hey, 2 Daves won…
Time for a Song!
Edit: Link fixed….
🙂
As for the books Dave, I could buy copies and have you ship them to me… I’ll cover all costs.
This just in (Thanks to Graham)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080116a