Comments on: Primal/Within: Showdown at the Castle of the Overmind, Part 2 http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/ The Journal of Gamer Culture Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:53:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: callin http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57248 callin Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:36:25 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57248 As far as prep work being wasted, sometimes I look at it as a boon. It means I have to do less prep work for the next play session. Right now my players are stuck in a published module (WotC made some really long dungeons early on in 4E), but I've been prepared the last couple of weeks without really having to do much work. A sort of mini-DM-vacation. .-= callin´s last blog ..<a href="http://bigballofnofun.blogspot.com/2009/12/birthright-encounters-three.html" rel="nofollow">Birthright Encounters Three</a> =-. As far as prep work being wasted, sometimes I look at it as a boon. It means I have to do less prep work for the next play session. Right now my players are stuck in a published module (WotC made some really long dungeons early on in 4E), but I’ve been prepared the last couple of weeks without really having to do much work. A sort of mini-DM-vacation.
.-= callin´s last blog ..Birthright Encounters Three =-.

]]> By: ChattyDM http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57247 ChattyDM Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:55:34 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57247 Gah my comments reply habits are getting out of whack. Sorry! @Wrath:One of my players shared an incredibly good insight about managing that DM frustration and I'll go into it in the next part. @Scott: I don't think it's conceivable to do it all. You either improv scenes and combat and you put few interactive elements or you plan some terrain and trap elements in advance and drop them when appropriate (but that's not so improv anymore). However, in such cases, Rule 42 is your friend! You can create any terrain effect with the DC and Damage ratings of page 42 of the DMG. As for attack bonuses, use the same as your monsters in the encounter. No one will ever notice. @Erik:A way to cut short a battle is to impose an effect on all figures on the map to go back to setting up (earthquake maybe).... Or the floor collapses onto a lower dungeon level and you drop all minis from 1' over the battle map and set them up where they fall. Lastly you can use a digital camera to capture the board. I should do that... Gah my comments reply habits are getting out of whack. Sorry!

@Wrath:One of my players shared an incredibly good insight about managing that DM frustration and I’ll go into it in the next part.

@Scott: I don’t think it’s conceivable to do it all. You either improv scenes and combat and you put few interactive elements or you plan some terrain and trap elements in advance and drop them when appropriate (but that’s not so improv anymore).

However, in such cases, Rule 42 is your friend! You can create any terrain effect with the DC and Damage ratings of page 42 of the DMG. As for attack bonuses, use the same as your monsters in the encounter. No one will ever notice.

@Erik:A way to cut short a battle is to impose an effect on all figures on the map to go back to setting up (earthquake maybe)…. Or the floor collapses onto a lower dungeon level and you drop all minis from 1′ over the battle map and set them up where they fall.

Lastly you can use a digital camera to capture the board. I should do that…

]]> By: Erik Waddell http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57246 Erik Waddell Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:38:56 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57246 I completely understand your frustrations at having to cut a session short because of the length of time it takes to fight a battle. More than once I've ended my game half an hour or 45 minutes early because I knew that I had time to start a battle but not the time to see it through to completion (and playing beyond my set end-time on a game day leads only to ongoing damage from the spouse's death-stare, no save!) As a grown-up with a job and a family it is definitely a let down to have to just give up some of that precious, precious gaming time! Don't get me wrong. I'm actually a big 4E fan. But upon reflection I realise that one problem with the new system is that it is very hard to pause a battle mid-way through and then resume it again 3 weeks later. Not only would making a record of the positions of every player and monster on the board be a hassle, but add to that all the condition modifiers, which daily or encounter powers the players and the monsters have used etc and you would have to keep a lengthy ledger just to be able to rebuild the board! I completely understand your frustrations at having to cut a session short because of the length of time it takes to fight a battle. More than once I’ve ended my game half an hour or 45 minutes early because I knew that I had time to start a battle but not the time to see it through to completion (and playing beyond my set end-time on a game day leads only to ongoing damage from the spouse’s death-stare, no save!)

As a grown-up with a job and a family it is definitely a let down to have to just give up some of that precious, precious gaming time!

Don’t get me wrong. I’m actually a big 4E fan. But upon reflection I realise that one problem with the new system is that it is very hard to pause a battle mid-way through and then resume it again 3 weeks later. Not only would making a record of the positions of every player and monster on the board be a hassle, but add to that all the condition modifiers, which daily or encounter powers the players and the monsters have used etc and you would have to keep a lengthy ledger just to be able to rebuild the board!

]]> By: Scott http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57245 Scott Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:51:17 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57245 I seem to have very similar problems with improv combat, i find it hard to come up with interesting in-depth environmental encounters on the spot. It is one of those things that i'm really working on to improve though. Mind you combat in general is a sore point for me. I enjoy it, i just find the Maths and number crunching has started to really take away from the excitement of the combat instead of enhancing it and this leaves a 2-4 hour whole in my campaign where everyone sits around waiting for thier turn and then when it is thier turn the do some Maths and move on. Building my next campaign at the moment and working on a more free flowing and narration/skill heavy battle system where Mastered Feats are rare and everything else is available thorugh a new 6-tiered skill system (by the sound of Mouseguarding, could be similar to mouseguards). It is either going to work gloriously or fail miserably, lol. Apart from that for a 2 hour-ish game you managed to pack alot of Epic atmosphere into it as well as bring Lolth back into the picture. Which is a very nice thread for an entire campaign. The Fangs/Master reveal was very cool and i've been dying to find out what was the deal there for awhile now. Looking forward to seeing your notes on the Final Battle, speaking of which did i mention i don't like Combat at the moment! :) Scott I seem to have very similar problems with improv combat, i find it hard to come up with interesting in-depth environmental encounters on the spot. It is one of those things that i’m really working on to improve though.

Mind you combat in general is a sore point for me. I enjoy it, i just find the Maths and number crunching has started to really take away from the excitement of the combat instead of enhancing it and this leaves a 2-4 hour whole in my campaign where everyone sits around waiting for thier turn and then when it is thier turn the do some Maths and move on.

Building my next campaign at the moment and working on a more free flowing and narration/skill heavy battle system where Mastered Feats are rare and everything else is available thorugh a new 6-tiered skill system (by the sound of Mouseguarding, could be similar to mouseguards).

It is either going to work gloriously or fail miserably, lol.

Apart from that for a 2 hour-ish game you managed to pack alot of Epic atmosphere into it as well as bring Lolth back into the picture. Which is a very nice thread for an entire campaign. The Fangs/Master reveal was very cool and i’ve been dying to find out what was the deal there for awhile now.

Looking forward to seeing your notes on the Final Battle, speaking of which did i mention i don’t like Combat at the moment! :)

Scott

]]> By: wrathofzombie http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57244 wrathofzombie Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:31:43 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57244 I agree with you that it can be frustrating Chatty, but personally I will put up with the frustration to keep role-playing because, like you, I only get to role-play once every two weeks. I'm a pretty creative guy and my mind is usually bursting with ideas that I have to sit and wait on FOREVER because we hardly get to play... *sob*. So yeah.. I'll put up with the frustration that sometimes arises from being a GM to get some of the ideas I have in my brain out on the table. .-= wrathofzombie´s last blog ..<a href="http://wrathofzombie.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/clockworks-playtest-chargen-part-two/" rel="nofollow">Clockworks Playtest- Chargen! Part Two</a> =-. I agree with you that it can be frustrating Chatty, but personally I will put up with the frustration to keep role-playing because, like you, I only get to role-play once every two weeks.

I’m a pretty creative guy and my mind is usually bursting with ideas that I have to sit and wait on FOREVER because we hardly get to play… *sob*. So yeah.. I’ll put up with the frustration that sometimes arises from being a GM to get some of the ideas I have in my brain out on the table.
.-= wrathofzombie´s last blog ..Clockworks Playtest- Chargen! Part Two =-.

]]> By: ChattyDM http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57243 ChattyDM Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:55:52 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57243 I agree with you about the importance of hanging with friends and I was more surprised than annoyed that the evening was already over. However, there is the fact that the GM often spent one to several hours prepping for this game arrives at the table with expectations of seeing the upfront work be used in this session. Having those expectations squandered several sessions in a row can lead to GM burnout. I mean, if we are really short on time maybe board games are a better use of that time. I agree with you about the importance of hanging with friends and I was more surprised than annoyed that the evening was already over.

However, there is the fact that the GM often spent one to several hours prepping for this game arrives at the table with expectations of seeing the upfront work be used in this session. Having those expectations squandered several sessions in a row can lead to GM burnout. I mean, if we are really short on time maybe board games are a better use of that time.

]]> By: callin http://critical-hits.com/2009/12/01/primalwithin-showdown-at-the-castle-of-the-overmind-part-2/#comment-57242 callin Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:41:08 +0000 http://chattydm.net/?p=4315#comment-57242 I also get miffed when we start late. However, I then remember this is a social encounter and the game is the excuse to meet up. I've spent nights wherein we spend the first 45 minutes to an hour doing nothing but chatting (and this with a schedule of only 3 hours, every two weeks). Last night we also had to end early because the players had reached the start of a huge fight and one of the players was not there, so we decided to wait another two weeks before running the climatic fight. With the fights in 4E lasting so long we often end early rather than start a fight we know will last hours. One thing I do is make sure I am set up to start. I have the battle map set up with the next room and the miniatures and character sheets out for the players to take, before the players show up. This way, its not my fault if we start late (other than my participation in the off-topic conversations). Also, if we are not in the middle of a fight, I will start with the players that are already there and the rest can catch up when they show up. But, in the end, its all about hanging out with your friends. .-= callin´s last blog ..<a href="http://bigballofnofun.blogspot.com/2009/11/birthright-encounters.html" rel="nofollow">Birthright Encounters One</a> =-. I also get miffed when we start late. However, I then remember this is a social encounter and the game is the excuse to meet up. I’ve spent nights wherein we spend the first 45 minutes to an hour doing nothing but chatting (and this with a schedule of only 3 hours, every two weeks).

Last night we also had to end early because the players had reached the start of a huge fight and one of the players was not there, so we decided to wait another two weeks before running the climatic fight. With the fights in 4E lasting so long we often end early rather than start a fight we know will last hours.

One thing I do is make sure I am set up to start. I have the battle map set up with the next room and the miniatures and character sheets out for the players to take, before the players show up. This way, its not my fault if we start late (other than my participation in the off-topic conversations).
Also, if we are not in the middle of a fight, I will start with the players that are already there and the rest can catch up when they show up.

But, in the end, its all about hanging out with your friends.
.-= callin´s last blog ..Birthright Encounters One =-.

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