http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19938490/Dispensing_with_34Gold34_as_a_real_currency?num=10&pg=1

Perhaps add a distinction between physically acquiring a magical item and gaining use of the item?

Monster hoards could then allow PCs to acquire some sort of “magical loot points” that symbolize having found some items that need to be analyzed to determine their function, command words, remaining charges, side effects, etc.

The players could then spend these points on magical items they desire. More powerful or rare items require more points in cost as well as more game-time of analyzation.

In addition, postulate that adventurers earn most of their cash by selling unwanted magical loot. Then the GM merely needs to calibrate how many of these loot points per month correspond to a decent/luxurious/extravagant lifestyle, and how many per month are needed to employ various hirelings.

And does anyone have a good idea for a rule of thumb regarding how many GP would equate a DC of 10?

I do like the idea of using a Shadowrun like system – one could have wealth levels like “peasant”, “burger” or “prince” to give players some idea how rich they are and what kind of holdings (land, henchmen etc.) they can afford.

Hmmm … didn’t the old D&D expert box have st. like this?

Streetwise, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate are the most likely contenders. I’d add Thievery and Stealth if you want to go underhanded. Arcana, Nature, History, and Religion could also help a fair amount for acquiring magic gear and info.

- Basically, there’s no need for a new Wealth skill or gold (in my opinion). In the old days, bartering and trade was the big thing anyways.

- Love the idea of giving players gear automatically as they level (something new to look forward to each session). Especially 1st level. Brilliant.

- Special items/artifacts you might want to hand out are still valid. Everyone loves getting new rituals for the party, and items that help with those.

- Things like acquiring mounts and other fleeting possessions can be handwaved by the DM each session as appropriate to the story.

Magic items will “grow” and change over time, and develop a personality (based on the character who is using it over time). Just as players can retrain on level changes, they will be able to retool their tools.

Retooling will be easier at heroic than paragon, as the personality of the items will still be weak. But by the time you hit epic, the items will be much harder to change as their personalities will much more established. (harder to teach an old dog new tricks)

What if…
The “wealth” skill value is controlled by sources of income, which were individually modelled like diseases/curses. (little more paper work, but could provide some interesting hooks)

A track could look something like this (note, I haven’t done any math, so the numbers are just placeholders really)

Repossessed (immediately loose this income source)
Scraping by (sell for +5)
Low income (+1, or sell for +10)
Average income ( +3, or sell for +15)
Doing well ( +5, or sell for +20 )
Best in town ( +8, or sell for +30 )

On a given test you can draw on your income sources to get the value added (or you can sell for a one time larger bonus). However, there is also a chance that the income source itself could become hindered by dipping into it (haven’t figured out if it should be a separate roll, or tied to the original check).

As well characters can do things to cause checks for improvements ( clean up the place, advertise to the right people, bring in a famous bard, break the right knees)

This can also simulate large winfalls such as a dragons horde. These incomes would either have automatic drops in status, or at least much higher chances of them dropping when you tap into them.

All gone (immediately loose this income source)
Just a handful ( +5 )
Bag full (+10 )
Box full (+20)
Room full (+50)

As well it can simulate investments that allow for speculation.

immediately loose this income source
50% of investment returned
100% investment returned
150% investment returned
200% investment returned
500% investment returned
.-= jcdietrich´s last blog ..Charter for Compassion =-.

From the player perspective you do it a level up when your actually away of the table and looking at the character builder to upgrade your character and are actually making a decision not a wish.

For the DM you don’t need to plan where they could potentially find it or force drop in place that would be artificial.

As for the weave it in the story part its only if you need it to ease your suspension of disbelief. I know for one that I won’t invest much time in this and will use at nauseam the “I found it on some dead critter who could no figure out how to use it”. It’s the default case anyway.

As you can see it might not be that big of an innovation but from our perspective it’s a win on all of these front as these detail where annoying us.

Nobody as claimed that every one should use this. Hell where not even going to us it as presented here with all the feedback Phil had. I took the best idea out there to improve it.

So in the future if you fail to see the relevance say it but try doing it without the personal attack.

There’s a good chance that I had this reflection because the RAW did not meet my needs 100% and instead of complaining about it, I suggested alternatives. Then several dozen people chimed in, bouncing new ideas off the original one, helping me better define what I ‘m looking for to have my needs better addressed. That’s what I love about this blog.

Thanks for your comment. Please don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

First on magic items your system is to have players tell you what they want on their characters, and then the two of you work out a story of how it got there. … Pardon my obtuseness I suppose, but how is that different from a wishlist and roleplaying?

Second on Wealth, what you’re describing is *exactly* (not even approximately, *exactly*) a Skill Challenge with Streetwise primary, Diplomacy, Bluff, Insight, and Perception as secondaries.

These aren’t bad ideas. They’re very good ideas… but they’re not innovations, they’re already there in the canon ruleset you say you dislike!

That particular campaign was very abstract: there was no XP, not really any money, and most items were handled by the abstraction. In-game, the characters were imbuing mundane items with special abilities, not finding long-lost relics of a forgotten empire all the time — when they found long-lost relics of forgotten empires, they were actually long-lost relics of forgotten empires (usually clues and/or keys, and occasionally also placed magic items).

Were I to remove all Magic Items to give inherent bonuses… I’d keep the artifacts and maker sure they featured heavily in my games.

Thanks everyone for your insights and comments. Yan has set up a seemingly solid set of houserules for us based on the original idea and your feedback. We’ll let you know how it pans out.

I don’t know if I’d ditch magic item treasure entirely, since it’s fun to find loot and haggle over how to divide the treasure, but alternative ways to hand out magic can be interesting.
.-= Jonathan Drain´s last blog ..Universal Solution To Every Plothole =-.