Comments on: City of the Overmind: The Nipples of Chaos, Part 1

By: Yan

Yan — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:18:47 +0000

The problem with growing thing is that from a character/player’s perspective is… If it’s growing in size/strength you have all the incentive to destroy it right here and now before it becomes to strong to handle.

If it his big and strong you have all the incentive to lets somebody else do the softening…

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:10:19 +0000

That was the plan… in the 3rd scene. I had 3 scenes planned where the monster, growing progressively bigger, stopped being a combat threat and became an environmental one.

I need to finish writing that last part and soon

By: Yan

Yan — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:55:10 +0000

My mental image of this was an encounter with us against enemies and the Monster as third party figuratively a wall which was going forward at slow speed after the player. While running away from it, the enemies would have been trying to block us. During that the monster would make attack against a random target or the last person that attacked it. I also see the possibility to make Athletic/acrobatic stunt to make hit an adjacent target or use the mystical stuff to try to alter some aspect of its form.

Obviously when I saw the size of things I was one of The ‘let’s crash it in the Castle’ players that was disappointed. Ok then plan B lets kill it! We know how that ended…

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:40:15 +0000

HA! The true story is that I sold the Monster as being immense… then 2 days before the fight I looked at the monster’s stats and noticed that it was ‘large”

Now instead of ignoring this and making it at least Huge, I had a brainfart and made an Asspull (Retcon to save a writer’s story, irrespective of jarring the audience). The monster would START out smaller and GROW!

And the audience was jarred all right.

By: Eric Maziade

Eric Maziade — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:36:56 +0000

@Lanir: I think he made them expect Godzilla, but gave them the two tiny twins that can summon Mothra instead. Mooooosurraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! .-= Eric Maziade´s last blog ..On the road to Spellgu- postmortem =-.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:36:41 +0000

@Wyatt: That’s a failing of mine. I sometimes become very excited about my own cleverness and I show my hand too soon. That will teach me better.

@Eric: Har Har Har… yes I sinned at the altar of Michael Bay but didn’t double check the script

@Lanir: Ha ha ha. They were happy getting the 20 foot Angel… getting from the Chevy Van to Susan (Alien vs Monsters) was what sapped part of the fun from it.

By: Lanir

Lanir — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:29:44 +0000

Wait… So you let them have Godzilla to attack the city and your players weren’t happy with this? o.O I’m confused.

Edit: Mostly teasing. Just had to say it though.

By: Eric Maziade

Eric Maziade — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:02:47 +0000

@Chatty
What? What? You had a cool idea for a scene and built a game around it? What’s that? A summer blockbuster? What?

I have a tendency to grab onto my lovely crafted scenes as if my whole game depended on its success (basically, a big part of how it died )

Can’t wait to see part 2 where you gather your wits and vanquish that beast!

(You know how much I like stories about how things didn’t go according to plan but got fixed on-the-fly by quick-witted people )
.-= Eric Maziade´s last blog ..On the road to Spellgu- postmortem =-.

By: Wyatt

Wyatt — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:30:51 +0000

This is why I come up with bigger stretches of what the skills do in 4e so that they could be used in more expansive situations. One thing I might have done at that point (and you may have done this and left it out, I’m not sure) is to have the physically-minded players rolling Athletics and Acrobatics skills to represent their beating down on random thugs near the rampaging magic-beast, to keep them from disrupting the other players. Or rolling Endurance to represent some other physical effort that could’ve helped the endeavor, like maybe grant life force to the magic-thing to make it rampage harder, or to channel their physical combat prowess into the beast to have the giant thing do a tide of iron and push a building over. But this is a suggestion made with huge holes in what was going on.

Also I very rarely tell players what I’m planning because I don’t like giving them false expectations (in case I mess up later) or any expectations at all. I like for things to unfold for them just as their characters experience them – with no insight at all in any way into what their decisions lead them to, unless they’re casting divinations or something. It may leave player input out of the picture in some ways, but I’ve found it helpful as a GM. I can always take their feedback after the fact and use it as input for some other time.
.-= Wyatt´s last blog ..The Clouded Palace: Part 1 =-.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:33:37 +0000

@Silent: I have a rep for telling it when it goes great and not so great. I’ll try to write part 2 tonight because I want to tell about the great save that everyone worked hard to achieve.

By: silent stone

silent stone — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:27:48 +0000

I'm looking forward to part 2 of this: as much as I like hearing about all the great new things that can be done in an RPG, not much attention seems to be paid to what to do when things go wrong (which, for me as a DM, is a more frequent outcome than getting it right). .-= silent stone´s last blog ..Hecatonchires: A NaNoWriMo Project =-.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:01:57 +0000

@Chgowiz: As usual, I take your suggestion with serenity and open mindess. The problems aren’t inherent to the game but my structure of it. I think I’ve been working at cross purposes. On one side I sell a sandbox game and then I have an idea for a cool series of scene that goes against the initial idea.

It’s not the first time I paint myself in a campaign corner. And I’m glad that I managed to get out of it.

While I’m no fan of sandboxes, I will take your wisdom to heart for my next games.

@Walkerp: That my friend, wins you the Super Secret Bacon Prize. Well played!

By: walkerp

walkerp — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:29:02 +0000

wait, what the hell? I thought this blog was about the swine flu?! That’s it, I’m never reading this blog again.
.-= walkerp´s last blog ..episode 6 – an interview with Barbarians of Lemuria creator Simon Washbourne =-.

By: Chgowiz

Chgowiz — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:00:45 +0000

And note that “tap dance” comment is said with all respect, because I know you’re an awesome DM that can dig your way out of trouble – we ALL have had to do that dance… and man, it can suck or be awesome.
.-= Chgowiz´s last blog ..Handing out cookies… =-.

By: Chgowiz

Chgowiz — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:00:00 +0000

I have so many thoughts here, but they all come down to this – I wonder if there are too many pregenerated things – pregenerated character backgrounds, pregenerated plot points, pregenerated expectations.

This follows a discussion that I wish had continued elsewhere, where a blogger said “The Prince who the future of world depended on, might have died.”

To which I responded “That’s awesome! So if he dies, then the PCs have to come up with a NEW way of saving the world. Or maybe they don’t and now they have to survive the apocalypse! It makes me want to push that Prince off the cliff to see what happens!”

That’s the danger (as I percieve) of huge pregenerated, out-of-game determined backgrounds and plots – in-game stuff can cause them to blow up.

Instead of having a big background, if Franky had already seen Warden do his thing with spirits in game, he wouldn’t have had that huge expectation. Or maybe Warden and Franky would have needed to work together to make it happen? That way, in-game, they’ve learned how to cooperate.

My players in Dark Ages are starting to come to that whole realization. It’s neat to see.

You, sir, have to stick to your buildups! If you advertise a building sized monster, you better deliver… or give a good reason why it’s now a Hummer size. Perhaps baby got loose and momma is close behind? Or perhaps after the building collapsed – THEN it blew up to building size cause now it’s mad – and you wouldn’t like it angry?

This is also why I’ve become a big believer in Ben Robbin’s “Player driven plot West Marches” – the players drive themselves. Or sometimes they don’t, but then that’s what the players want to do.

I’m looking foward to hearing your tap-dance conclusion, because I know you did it!
.-= Chgowiz´s last blog ..Handing out cookies… =-.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:06:26 +0000

Or even the best sometimes get caught with their pants down due to communication misfire.

By: misterecho

misterecho — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:01:36 +0000

Even the best need a little warm up time! .-= misterecho´s last blog ..So you thought Cyberpunk was dead? =-.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:39:44 +0000

Had I been less concerned about saving my derailing plot and more focused on the player’s reactions, I’d have dropped a few more critters for the FIghters to deal with while some casters focused on the trapped monsters.

But it got a lot better in the second half.

By: wrathofzombie

wrathofzombie — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:34:00 +0000

Great post Chatty! Sorry that you had a rough start of things. Trust me, I’ve been there.

Maybe this will be addressed in Post 2 or probably isn’t even possible in your game, but the thing I would have done for the Barbarian and Rogue is give them something to do, like keeping the random guard or two off of the magic users while they are channeling or whatever to control the monster. Or having them save people from falling debris from the monsters path of destruction.

Once again Chatty I applaud your ability to share your mistakes and hard learned lessons while DMing!
.-= wrathofzombie´s last blog ..Pathfinder Bestiary Review =-.