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	<title>Comments on: The Inner Half-Orc versus The Retro-Clone</title>
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	<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/</link>
	<description>The Journal of Gamer Culture</description>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56337</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56337</guid>
		<description>I think that &#039;say yes&#039; is not actually letting players steal the sun without work, but rather it&#039;s a simpler (and more positive) way of saying &#039;Stop saying you can&#039;t do it!&#039;

The spirit of classic D&amp;D is to say yes to the question &#039;Can my PC try to...&#039; and then require a dice roll if (and only if) failure can lead to a more interesting situation.

Actually, let me rephrase that, the spirit of ALL RPGs that I&#039;d care to play should be compatible with &#039;Say Yes&#039;

That, along with the Rule of Cool, are my main guiding principles to GMing a RPG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that &#8216;say yes&#8217; is not actually letting players steal the sun without work, but rather it&#8217;s a simpler (and more positive) way of saying &#8216;Stop saying you can&#8217;t do it!&#8217;</p>
<p>The spirit of classic D&#038;D is to say yes to the question &#8216;Can my PC try to&#8230;&#8217; and then require a dice roll if (and only if) failure can lead to a more interesting situation.</p>
<p>Actually, let me rephrase that, the spirit of ALL RPGs that I&#8217;d care to play should be compatible with &#8216;Say Yes&#8217;</p>
<p>That, along with the Rule of Cool, are my main guiding principles to GMing a RPG.</p>
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		<title>By: James V</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56336</link>
		<dc:creator>James V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56336</guid>
		<description>Though I loved the &quot;just say yes&quot; policy when I was a foolish kid in college working in an improv group, I have my reservations to the rule when it comes to DMing. I revised the rule from &quot;just say yes&quot; to &quot;you can try&quot; and let things succeed or fail on the merits of their plans, or at least the dice. Letting the players succeed whenever they ask can be nice, and can even have strings attached as mentioned, but sometimes moments are most exciting, or defining in their failures, and in my game at least, that needs to be on the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I loved the &#8220;just say yes&#8221; policy when I was a foolish kid in college working in an improv group, I have my reservations to the rule when it comes to DMing. I revised the rule from &#8220;just say yes&#8221; to &#8220;you can try&#8221; and let things succeed or fail on the merits of their plans, or at least the dice. Letting the players succeed whenever they ask can be nice, and can even have strings attached as mentioned, but sometimes moments are most exciting, or defining in their failures, and in my game at least, that needs to be on the table.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56335</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56335</guid>
		<description>As I am wont to say, &quot;Yes, yes, yes, &lt;i&gt;yes&lt;/i&gt;, YES!&quot;

This really hits the nail on the head.  Old School play is all about searching the game, and not the rules, for solutions, and interesting consequences for failure (and sometimes success, too).

Congrats on being part of a great game. :)
.-= Brian&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://trollsmyth.blogspot.com/2009/09/yes-they-could.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yes They Could!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I am wont to say, &#8220;Yes, yes, yes, <i>yes</i>, YES!&#8221;</p>
<p>This really hits the nail on the head.  Old School play is all about searching the game, and not the rules, for solutions, and interesting consequences for failure (and sometimes success, too).</p>
<p>Congrats on being part of a great game. <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= Brian&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://trollsmyth.blogspot.com/2009/09/yes-they-could.html" rel="nofollow">Yes They Could!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56334</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56334</guid>
		<description>@Rafe: Our next RPG for the geekout, if we don&#039;t play S&amp;W again, is going to be Mouse Guard.  Maybe that will end up being THE system he was looking for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rafe: Our next RPG for the geekout, if we don&#8217;t play S&#038;W again, is going to be Mouse Guard.  Maybe that will end up being THE system he was looking for.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56333</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56333</guid>
		<description>PM, it seems to me like you&#039;d be a huge fan of Burning Wheel where there&#039;s always a solution, combat is awesome but &quot;serious bid&#039;ness,&quot; characters are meant to be conduits for the player instead of &quot;Oh, my character would do this but I sure as hell wouldn&#039;t,&quot; etc.

Anyhoo.  You sound like a good candidate for small-press RPGs like Burning Wheel and Dogs In the Vineyard.
.-= Rafe&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://rpgbehindthescreens.blogspot.com/2009/08/abstract-wealth.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Abstract Wealth&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PM, it seems to me like you&#8217;d be a huge fan of Burning Wheel where there&#8217;s always a solution, combat is awesome but &#8220;serious bid&#8217;ness,&#8221; characters are meant to be conduits for the player instead of &#8220;Oh, my character would do this but I sure as hell wouldn&#8217;t,&#8221; etc.</p>
<p>Anyhoo.  You sound like a good candidate for small-press RPGs like Burning Wheel and Dogs In the Vineyard.<br />
.-= Rafe&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://rpgbehindthescreens.blogspot.com/2009/08/abstract-wealth.html" rel="nofollow">Abstract Wealth</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56332</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56332</guid>
		<description>@Chgowiz: You see that love I get from my players!  I&#039;m telling you, I&#039;m too soft. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chgowiz: You see that love I get from my players!  I&#8217;m telling you, I&#8217;m too soft. <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: PM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56331</link>
		<dc:creator>PM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56331</guid>
		<description>@Chgowiz: Altough my experience is limited, I do have have the advantage of Chatty&#039;s constant jabbering in my ear. That&#039;s a life time of information. :)

I&#039;m glad to see that I grokked the concepts put forward by the game. I will be looking forward to trying it again.

@Zzarchov: I&#039;m sure I could use skills instead of items in a modern game... I do have an IQ slightly superior to the dog in my example.... I would still need the DM to present more scenes where those would be useful.  I&#039;ve been told that skills rarely have any real impact in a game like 4e.  Plus, I&#039;m a prop guy. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chgowiz: Altough my experience is limited, I do have have the advantage of Chatty&#8217;s constant jabbering in my ear. That&#8217;s a life time of information. <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to see that I grokked the concepts put forward by the game. I will be looking forward to trying it again.</p>
<p>@Zzarchov: I&#8217;m sure I could use skills instead of items in a modern game&#8230; I do have an IQ slightly superior to the dog in my example&#8230;. I would still need the DM to present more scenes where those would be useful.  I&#8217;ve been told that skills rarely have any real impact in a game like 4e.  Plus, I&#8217;m a prop guy. <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zzarchov</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56330</link>
		<dc:creator>Zzarchov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56330</guid>
		<description>I too am a large fan of exploration and &quot;MacGuyvering&quot; past obstacles.  Definately one of my motivators in gaming.
.-= Zzarchov&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://zzarchov.blogspot.com/2009/09/making-battles-epic-monster-versus.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Making battles epic:  THE monster versus A monster&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am a large fan of exploration and &#8220;MacGuyvering&#8221; past obstacles.  Definately one of my motivators in gaming.<br />
.-= Zzarchov&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://zzarchov.blogspot.com/2009/09/making-battles-epic-monster-versus.html" rel="nofollow">Making battles epic:  THE monster versus A monster</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56329</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56329</guid>
		<description>@PM: There you go man, you got the author of the Quick-Start rule to chime in!  :)  That he happens to be a friend is completely immaterial! :) Apparently mu guest posters are great industry magnets! :)

Seriously though, your example was a perfect mix and match for an encounter targeted for multiple types of players.  What&#039;s beautiful about older games is that with only one line of text you can create a whole encounter.

And even more interestingly enough, you can do the same in 4e, once the DM starts trusting the rules on Page 42 of the Dungeon master guide and is willing to improv some skill challenges (Chases) and rapid combat (all monsters are minions).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PM: There you go man, you got the author of the Quick-Start rule to chime in!  <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   That he happens to be a friend is completely immaterial! <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Apparently mu guest posters are great industry magnets! <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Seriously though, your example was a perfect mix and match for an encounter targeted for multiple types of players.  What&#8217;s beautiful about older games is that with only one line of text you can create a whole encounter.</p>
<p>And even more interestingly enough, you can do the same in 4e, once the DM starts trusting the rules on Page 42 of the Dungeon master guide and is willing to improv some skill challenges (Chases) and rapid combat (all monsters are minions).</p>
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		<title>By: Chgowiz</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56328</link>
		<dc:creator>Chgowiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56328</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really cool to see how you, as a new player, really grokked the zen of a rules-light system based on original editions. That&#039;s awesome!
.-= Chgowiz&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/2009/09/siege-perilous-ultima-rpg-playtest.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Siege Perilous - Ultima RPG - playtest release&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really cool to see how you, as a new player, really grokked the zen of a rules-light system based on original editions. That&#8217;s awesome!<br />
.-= Chgowiz&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/2009/09/siege-perilous-ultima-rpg-playtest.html" rel="nofollow">The Siege Perilous &#8211; Ultima RPG &#8211; playtest release</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: PM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56327</link>
		<dc:creator>PM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56327</guid>
		<description>I used a combat to illustrate how an short exploration scene need not to replace combat. Like I said, we must be fair to all player types. It could have resulted in the distant footsteps of an in estigating patrol that the party might prefer to avoid.

On a different note, Chatty warned me that there would hell to pay should any industry reader chose to comment on my guest post. (a little bit of guest/host rivalry going on here) I&#039;m pretty curious as to what his little warning might lead to and he never said anything about cheating. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used a combat to illustrate how an short exploration scene need not to replace combat. Like I said, we must be fair to all player types. It could have resulted in the distant footsteps of an in estigating patrol that the party might prefer to avoid.</p>
<p>On a different note, Chatty warned me that there would hell to pay should any industry reader chose to comment on my guest post. (a little bit of guest/host rivalry going on here) I&#8217;m pretty curious as to what his little warning might lead to and he never said anything about cheating. <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56326</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56326</guid>
		<description>Awesome post, as usual.

Interesting take on the price of failure in classic RPGs.  In fact you have half the answer, you are right that failing in many tasks leads to combat.  Just check your own example, you used that there with guards being attracted by the noise.

The other half of the answer is a staple of bad Adventure design where failure prevents you from going to the next part of the adventure.

Fortunately, the adventure we played had no such bottlenecks, all rooms were self contained events.  While it was low on puzzle, it was a great introductory adventure for the system itself.

But, I really saw how the &#039;Say Yes&#039; philosophy enriches the classic D&amp;D experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome post, as usual.</p>
<p>Interesting take on the price of failure in classic RPGs.  In fact you have half the answer, you are right that failing in many tasks leads to combat.  Just check your own example, you used that there with guards being attracted by the noise.</p>
<p>The other half of the answer is a staple of bad Adventure design where failure prevents you from going to the next part of the adventure.</p>
<p>Fortunately, the adventure we played had no such bottlenecks, all rooms were self contained events.  While it was low on puzzle, it was a great introductory adventure for the system itself.</p>
<p>But, I really saw how the &#8216;Say Yes&#8217; philosophy enriches the classic D&#038;D experience.</p>
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		<title>By: wrathofzombie</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56325</link>
		<dc:creator>wrathofzombie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56325</guid>
		<description>Great Post PM!  You bring up very valid points, and many of which are things a DM constantly struggles with to make a very interesting game!
.-= wrathofzombie&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://wrathofzombie.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/play-by-post-help/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Play By Post Help&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Post PM!  You bring up very valid points, and many of which are things a DM constantly struggles with to make a very interesting game!<br />
.-= wrathofzombie&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://wrathofzombie.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/play-by-post-help/" rel="nofollow">Play By Post Help</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: A Paladin In Citadel</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/09/01/the-inner-half-orc-versus-the-retro-clone/#comment-56324</link>
		<dc:creator>A Paladin In Citadel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3830#comment-56324</guid>
		<description>Really enjoyed your post!  I had the opportunity to play with 4 &quot;new&quot; D&amp;D players recently, I enjoyed their fresh take on the gaming experience.  I can appreciate chatty&#039;s &quot;just say yes&quot; approach, I think it&#039;s liberating for the DM, regardless of version, and I think it makes for a better game experience for all.  My new mantra with be &quot;yes, and&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really enjoyed your post!  I had the opportunity to play with 4 &#8220;new&#8221; D&amp;D players recently, I enjoyed their fresh take on the gaming experience.  I can appreciate chatty&#8217;s &#8220;just say yes&#8221; approach, I think it&#8217;s liberating for the DM, regardless of version, and I think it makes for a better game experience for all.  My new mantra with be &#8220;yes, and&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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