Not sure I’d say we’re having an easy time of it as we do occasionlly have characters going to 0 and are often running low on healing surges and such by the end of a stretch. I think we’re just running into the paradim shift that 4e has where character death is really only possible with a TPK or other extreme circumstances.

I like the suggestion to combine encounters. He and I had talked about possibliy trying to skip some or translate them into a skill chanllenge or something (but neither of those sat well). But combining into a larger encounter might work.

Of course that will probably lead to longer combat which we are trying to avoid as well, but we’re going to try the 1/2 hp (monsters and PCs) and timer for player decisions suggestions when we get together next. We’ve got a whiteboard initiative chart that everyone can see so it is easy to do the “on deck” suggestion and we all help with that so it isn’t just the DMs job to say who is going next.

I’m running my players through the scales of war campaign too. If you feel you are having an easy time of it, I would suggest having a word with your DM. What I’ve found in running the campaign is a lot of the battle are fairly middle of the road and don’t add a lot to the story. As such, they also are pretty easy.

As DM, I tend to go over the adventure in advance and cut any blatantly boring or unnecessary combats since the last thing I want is the players getting bored at another ‘minion stomp’. I prefer to run a few key encounters per area but make sure those are really meaningful and the players have to think or suffer the consequences of their actions. In some cases, this really is as simple as combining two existing encounters into one tougher encounter.

Ok, here’s a suggestion (suggestion mind you!)

Battles maximum length we should shoot for
Encounter below your level : 30min
Encounter your level : 45min
Encounter above your level : 60min

If maximum length is not passed
+1 healing surge is gained at end of battle
+10% XP is gained

If maximun length is passed
-1 healing surge is lost at end of battle

Start of battle
- If not a surprise, 2min max group tactic talks at the start of the battle
- No group tactics if the group is surprised
- Higher initiatives PC’s can decide to lower their Initiative

Before your turn
- DM (me) will say who is “on deck” at the start of each persons turn (meaning : you are next in line) on each start of turn
- The player “on deck” has to prepare his declaration while the other is doing is turn

During your turn
- 30sec to declare your attack power, move and minor (I don’t mean finish your turn, just declare “i use this, go there, minor this” )
- if not, you are delayed at the end

When you use a power
-get +To Attack and defense it’s attacking (ex.: +7 vs AC) first
-roll the dice, add and give me the number against which defense
-tell me any other effect it does

During battle
- Tactics talks kept to a minimum (quick phrases – no long discussions)
- Decide and prepare attacks before start of turn

That’s it.. my next game is coming saturday, i’ll post an update on how it went

We’ve come to the place where if we are facing a balanced encounter (in particular those in modules) we are starting to experience a “what’s the point” feeling.

In part it is because of fights going on for a long time. But perhaps more importantly we are feeling a bit of we can’t die syndrome. We are running the scales of war campaign with as little modification as possible. Every once in a while we feel threatened (basically only when our DM does some creative fudging), but for the most part we are just trying to minimize our losses (of healing and secondarily powers) as we go through the encounters.

We are divided between feeling that we should worry that our characters might die and feeling that we have invested time and energy into the characters and they should only die when we (or the story) wants them to. We have a mix of players who like the story telling aspect and the tactical wargaming feel of the game…but the story tellers are feeling a bit left out with the combat’s taking as long as they do.

We’re going to try halving everyone’s hp (PC and monster) and perhaps also double damage (and healing) but are concerned that that will make things be too “swingie” and it become a race to see who wins initiative.

thoughts?

Yes, certainly, and I would go as far as to say that even the most combat-centric group will find the combats more meaningful with some context provided by the fiction. Witness action movies and combat-focused video games, which tend to have some story to frame the fights.
.-= Tommi´s last blog ..D&D, old and new (Ropecon 09) =-.

So I imposed these general rules:
1) For each combat, the GM sets an amount of time that if the party completes the combat within, they get a +20% XP bonus. Yeah!
2) Likewise, the GM also sets a second amount of time that if the battle goes over they get a -20% XP bonus. Boo!

Notice that there is no upper limit on the time and if a battle takes too much time, they suffer a small, but painfull loss of XP. The penalty only is for XP, not for loot.

In the first battle, I said, “45 minutes for a bonus, go over 1 hr 15 minutes and you get a penalty.” This first battle was just a fight with 8 minions to warm them up to the idea and they quickly cleared the area in 10 minutes. A cheap setup on my part, but I wanted to make it clear that they could indeed complete battles quickly. This got them more agreeable to trying it again.

Second battle, same time frame. This is a lower level group fighting some fire bats, about 5. The group struggled a bit on time, but I would announce how long they had left on the timer roughly each round. They seemed to enjoy being pushed a bit and took the time limit as a challenge. Low and behold, we finished the battle with the last kill going off when the timer went off. Close enough, I rewarded them as promised.

Our next scenario was more complex as they came across a guardian demanding them for a password and shooting anyone who stepped too close to the door. It was a strange battle, if you want to call it that, and because of that, I used no time limit. I knew it was more of a puzzle than a combat. Again, I wanted to show them that the time limit is not always going to hang over them — especially in more confusing scenarios.

There were other short combats in the night, but none of them went longer than 45 minutes. I was pleased.

So, did the time limit work overall? I would say it did what I generally wanted — and that’s to make the players move along a little faster when they needed to. I tried to set the time limits well within a good range so there was plenty room for error. I liked it because it allowed everyone to take the time they NEED, but not so much they want to go looking up rules for each hypothesis. Some players were naturally faster than others allowing different speed folks (due to their own play styles or characters). It just kept a sense of urgency going.

Great Wavatar BTW.

Certainly you can add story elements, but with the combats taking hours, why would I play modern D&D and not Burning Wheel or something else that actively helps me in building story as a player?
.-= Tommi´s last blog ..D&D, old and new (Ropecon 09) =-.

With that idea and my skill challenge with Kalarel/Zombie Abomination
-the last 4 successes to close the portal to Shadowfell should either Daze or damage him for 2d4+4 (similar to a magic missile in dmg)

(if any want to take that idea, it’s free but next one gonna cost ya )

Seriously.
.-= newbiedm´s last blog ..Advice for Newbie DM’s: The Competitor DM vs. the Storyteller DM =-.

When I do this, I usually have each success of the skill challenge trigger a cool effect that has a direct impact on the fight. Like an explosion of Arcane power underneath the bbeg or having the black tentacles of doom trying to enter thhe world convulse and knock the Solo Prone (or at least get a chance to do it)

Just my 2 cents…. (60 comments? Geez that’s awesome!)

I think having a secondary “win the battle” objective for the party should remove some of the Grind. I assume they will battle the monster, but instead of a race to the last HP, they could have something that triggers the end-game and stops the battle.

When i’ll design my future encounters that have big monster, i’ll be thinking about adding a skill challenge for the PC’s to do at the same time of Grinding the Monster.

Since this discussion aired over twitter (and I was following most of the replies at the time). I’ve been trying to make myself very aware of exactly when the Grind sets in. I definitely have far less of a tolerance for the Grind than my players do. I’m much more interested in moving the story forward giving the short playing time we have available but they are really enjoying the tactical options provided by combat.

Not that I’m NOT enjoying the fights, I think my problem is I’m second guessing my players and when it’s hits the Grind, assuming they are going to get bored soon, which actually isn’t true!

I’ve got a couple of big solos planned down the road though so I shall be keeping a careful eye on those fights.