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	<title>Comments on: Tales of the City Within, Session 2, Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/</link>
	<description>The Journal of Gamer Culture</description>
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		<title>By: sylvain</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55819</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55819</guid>
		<description>Putting myself in the players shoes, I would be euphoric that such a plot twist occurred. The feeling of being set up would only add to my enjoyment when coupled with the fact that now we have an epic battle on our hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting myself in the players shoes, I would be euphoric that such a plot twist occurred. The feeling of being set up would only add to my enjoyment when coupled with the fact that now we have an epic battle on our hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Storyteller</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55818</link>
		<dc:creator>Storyteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55818</guid>
		<description>Understandable! It sounds like everything and anything is happening for your adventurers. Incidentally, I think I kind of ran a campaign like this once without even realizing it.

When the players are just eager to get one of their many tasks done they&#039;re usually ready and raring to latch on to any plot hooks they see, so a lot of red herrings and dead ends can slow gameplay to a grinding halt.

Yeah, I have a horribly hard time with DM bragging, and it&#039;s gotten me in trouble on more then one occasion! Hmm, I&#039;m feeling a potential post might be in order on this topic, it&#039;s kind of ringing true for me. I&#039;ll keep you updated :)
.-= Storyteller&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://beneaththescreen.blogspot.com/2009/07/party-time-encounter-youve-been-waiting_15.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holidays in D&amp;D: Part Six - Party Time!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Understandable! It sounds like everything and anything is happening for your adventurers. Incidentally, I think I kind of ran a campaign like this once without even realizing it.</p>
<p>When the players are just eager to get one of their many tasks done they&#8217;re usually ready and raring to latch on to any plot hooks they see, so a lot of red herrings and dead ends can slow gameplay to a grinding halt.</p>
<p>Yeah, I have a horribly hard time with DM bragging, and it&#8217;s gotten me in trouble on more then one occasion! Hmm, I&#8217;m feeling a potential post might be in order on this topic, it&#8217;s kind of ringing true for me. I&#8217;ll keep you updated <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= Storyteller&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://beneaththescreen.blogspot.com/2009/07/party-time-encounter-youve-been-waiting_15.html" rel="nofollow">Holidays in D&amp;D: Part Six &#8211; Party Time!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55817</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55817</guid>
		<description>@Storyteller:  I don&#039;t think I could have pulled off my current adventure with lots of clues and herrings as I had too many plots to take into account.  Howeverm were I to create a 2-3 plot thing, I would definitively add lots of clues (true and false) to confuse players.

You also bring an incredibly good point about DM bragging/talking about alternatives... this is a huge killjoy that many geeks, myself included, have a hard time avoiding.  Keeping impassive (but empathic) about a negative turn of event is a hard trick to master.

@Eric: I am getting better, but I have never played a full adventures with such limited notes before.  I&#039;m satisfied with the experience and I&#039;m learning a lot about how to do it the next time around.  We&#039;ll see what inspirations strike me when September rolls and we start our 11th season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Storyteller:  I don&#8217;t think I could have pulled off my current adventure with lots of clues and herrings as I had too many plots to take into account.  Howeverm were I to create a 2-3 plot thing, I would definitively add lots of clues (true and false) to confuse players.</p>
<p>You also bring an incredibly good point about DM bragging/talking about alternatives&#8230; this is a huge killjoy that many geeks, myself included, have a hard time avoiding.  Keeping impassive (but empathic) about a negative turn of event is a hard trick to master.</p>
<p>@Eric: I am getting better, but I have never played a full adventures with such limited notes before.  I&#8217;m satisfied with the experience and I&#8217;m learning a lot about how to do it the next time around.  We&#8217;ll see what inspirations strike me when September rolls and we start our 11th season.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Maziade</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55816</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Maziade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55816</guid>
		<description>@ChattyDM:
We&#039;re supposed to do this transparently?  Oh, darn!

PS: From what I&#039;ve seen and read, you&#039;re already pretty good at &quot;rolling with the punches&quot; and improving on ideas given or sparked by your players.
.-= Eric Maziade&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://eric.maziade.com/post/2009/07/15/Meta-%21-Crunch&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Meta != Crunch&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ChattyDM:<br />
We&#8217;re supposed to do this transparently?  Oh, darn!</p>
<p>PS: From what I&#8217;ve seen and read, you&#8217;re already pretty good at &#8220;rolling with the punches&#8221; and improving on ideas given or sparked by your players.<br />
.-= Eric Maziade&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://eric.maziade.com/post/2009/07/15/Meta-%21-Crunch" rel="nofollow">Meta != Crunch</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Storyteller</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55815</link>
		<dc:creator>Storyteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55815</guid>
		<description>I can totally sympathize with the &quot;you set us up&quot; moment. I&#039;ve said it as a player, and I&#039;ve heard it as a DM. I think the truth of the matter is simply that, despite how simple a DM may think a puzzle or series of clues s/he&#039;s given is, since the players aren&#039;t privy to everything they know, there will undoubtedly be times where the players latch onto something untrue and wind up screwing themselves over, all the while THINKING it was their only option.

You make a very good point about introducing a large number of red herrings and questions to the players. With that approach, the players will take a step back and say &quot;Wow, we&#039;re getting a lot of imput from a lot of different people. None of which we know to be true. Lets dig a little further.&quot; Even that little push can make players take the time to plan and to dig for the truth. If not, it can at least cover the DM&#039;s butt should things go south. (Even though undead dragons are awesome).

Something else I&#039;ve noticed that is generally bad to do, following that point, is to mention afterwards to the players &quot;Well, that wouldn&#039;t have happened if you&#039;d done ____&quot; or &quot;Maybe if you guys had listened you could have had _____ happen.&quot; Despite how much work a DM puts into creating possible outcomes and wants to share them all with the players, I&#039;ve noticed that presenting &quot;better&quot; possible choices the players could have made only leads to them REGRETTING choices they did make.

I find it&#039;s much better to let players ponder what might have been and usually that gives enough incentive to think out options in the future. Telling them what might of been more often then not leads to the blame game amogst players and a general bad time.
.-= Storyteller&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://beneaththescreen.blogspot.com/2009/07/party-time-encounter-youve-been-waiting_15.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Party Time: the encounter you&#039;ve been waiting for!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can totally sympathize with the &#8220;you set us up&#8221; moment. I&#8217;ve said it as a player, and I&#8217;ve heard it as a DM. I think the truth of the matter is simply that, despite how simple a DM may think a puzzle or series of clues s/he&#8217;s given is, since the players aren&#8217;t privy to everything they know, there will undoubtedly be times where the players latch onto something untrue and wind up screwing themselves over, all the while THINKING it was their only option.</p>
<p>You make a very good point about introducing a large number of red herrings and questions to the players. With that approach, the players will take a step back and say &#8220;Wow, we&#8217;re getting a lot of imput from a lot of different people. None of which we know to be true. Lets dig a little further.&#8221; Even that little push can make players take the time to plan and to dig for the truth. If not, it can at least cover the DM&#8217;s butt should things go south. (Even though undead dragons are awesome).</p>
<p>Something else I&#8217;ve noticed that is generally bad to do, following that point, is to mention afterwards to the players &#8220;Well, that wouldn&#8217;t have happened if you&#8217;d done ____&#8221; or &#8220;Maybe if you guys had listened you could have had _____ happen.&#8221; Despite how much work a DM puts into creating possible outcomes and wants to share them all with the players, I&#8217;ve noticed that presenting &#8220;better&#8221; possible choices the players could have made only leads to them REGRETTING choices they did make.</p>
<p>I find it&#8217;s much better to let players ponder what might have been and usually that gives enough incentive to think out options in the future. Telling them what might of been more often then not leads to the blame game amogst players and a general bad time.<br />
.-= Storyteller&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://beneaththescreen.blogspot.com/2009/07/party-time-encounter-youve-been-waiting_15.html" rel="nofollow">Party Time: the encounter you&#8217;ve been waiting for!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55814</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55814</guid>
		<description>@Wrathofzombies: As soon as the shock of the Dragon turning undead passed. Some players said &quot;At least we&#039;ll get to fight a Dracolich now, that ought to be cool&quot;.  So I will of course try to make sure that the fight is epic in feel and enjoyable.

@Eric: Yes, I hope to one day be able to do so transparently.  That&#039;s why we have those summer &#039;practice&#039; adventures.

@Yan: Yeah, I was wondering why all my tires were slashed when I came back to my car.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wrathofzombies: As soon as the shock of the Dragon turning undead passed. Some players said &#8220;At least we&#8217;ll get to fight a Dracolich now, that ought to be cool&#8221;.  So I will of course try to make sure that the fight is epic in feel and enjoyable.</p>
<p>@Eric: Yes, I hope to one day be able to do so transparently.  That&#8217;s why we have those summer &#8216;practice&#8217; adventures.</p>
<p>@Yan: Yeah, I was wondering why all my tires were slashed when I came back to my car.  <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Yan</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55813</link>
		<dc:creator>Yan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55813</guid>
		<description>@wrathofzombie: Well the option we have is, either get over it or have Phil as a player... The first one is a lot easier... :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wrathofzombie: Well the option we have is, either get over it or have Phil as a player&#8230; The first one is a lot easier&#8230; <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Eric Maziade</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55812</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Maziade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55812</guid>
		<description>@Wyatt:
Depends on how you use &quot;red herrings&quot;.  To my sense there is no such things.

One thing that I like to do (not too often - if any of my players are reading), is push in &quot;fake clues&quot; and let the players &quot;over analyze it&quot;.

The trick is in using the player&#039;s analysis to affect the plot.  The players will often make links that I could not have come up with - or even come up with explanations that are way more creative than what I had planned.

Having my players talk amongst themselves to try and understand the motivations of an NPC for doing something has often yielded nice plot line inspirations and even shifted the course of a session dramatically.

I love that kind of stuff :)
.-= Eric Maziade&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://eric.maziade.com/post/2009/07/15/Meta-%21-Crunch&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Meta != Crunch&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wyatt:<br />
Depends on how you use &#8220;red herrings&#8221;.  To my sense there is no such things.</p>
<p>One thing that I like to do (not too often &#8211; if any of my players are reading), is push in &#8220;fake clues&#8221; and let the players &#8220;over analyze it&#8221;.</p>
<p>The trick is in using the player&#8217;s analysis to affect the plot.  The players will often make links that I could not have come up with &#8211; or even come up with explanations that are way more creative than what I had planned.</p>
<p>Having my players talk amongst themselves to try and understand the motivations of an NPC for doing something has often yielded nice plot line inspirations and even shifted the course of a session dramatically.</p>
<p>I love that kind of stuff <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= Eric Maziade&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://eric.maziade.com/post/2009/07/15/Meta-%21-Crunch" rel="nofollow">Meta != Crunch</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: wrathofzombie</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55811</link>
		<dc:creator>wrathofzombie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55811</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a wonderfully crafted plot, Chatty!  Even though the players may be a little bitter at facing an undead dragon, and you did move the story forward, it will still be an epic battle that the players will enjoy.  And taking down an undead dragon will be the stuff of story around the table.  So I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll forgive you:)
.-= wrathofzombie&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://wrathofzombie.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/having-a-newsletter-really-does-help/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Having a Newsletter Really Does Help.&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a wonderfully crafted plot, Chatty!  Even though the players may be a little bitter at facing an undead dragon, and you did move the story forward, it will still be an epic battle that the players will enjoy.  And taking down an undead dragon will be the stuff of story around the table.  So I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll forgive you:)<br />
.-= wrathofzombie&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://wrathofzombie.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/having-a-newsletter-really-does-help/" rel="nofollow">Having a Newsletter Really Does Help.</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55810</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55810</guid>
		<description>@Ron: Should I take that as a compliment or as a warning? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ron: Should I take that as a compliment or as a warning? <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ron Bailey</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55809</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55809</guid>
		<description>Dang, son, that IS almost pure evil ^_^
.-= Ron Bailey&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RjBaileysRandomness/~3/kFLc_bQTANs/emily-osment-signs-with-wind-up-records.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Emily Osment Signs With Wind-Up Records&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang, son, that IS almost pure evil ^_^<br />
.-= Ron Bailey&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RjBaileysRandomness/~3/kFLc_bQTANs/emily-osment-signs-with-wind-up-records.html" rel="nofollow">Emily Osment Signs With Wind-Up Records</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDM</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55808</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55808</guid>
		<description>@Yan: Again, I said no too many times.  I was semi-panicking because there were just so many holes in the whole thing that I was thinking &#039;Oh my god they&#039;re just going to chuck everything in the Lava and bee done with it and the adventure will be done for&quot;.  That being said, they&#039;re enough &#039;story space&#039; left to have elbow room and finish this in a satisfying way.

@Wyatt: I would much rather have to gently prod a group stuck in planning paralysis than leaving out there with not enough to play with.  What this exercise in light-scripted adventure thought me is that more is better.  If I repeat the exercise, I&#039;ll probably have a table of clues both true and false that I&#039;ll pick randomly and sprinkle in scenes once PCs look for info.

@Tiorn: Guess as much as you like.  There&#039;s one more session to go and the whole story should have played itself.  Then I&#039;ll take a few weeks off for Vacation and Gen Con and I&#039;ll be ready to start the next mini-campaign in the City Within.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yan: Again, I said no too many times.  I was semi-panicking because there were just so many holes in the whole thing that I was thinking &#8216;Oh my god they&#8217;re just going to chuck everything in the Lava and bee done with it and the adventure will be done for&#8221;.  That being said, they&#8217;re enough &#8216;story space&#8217; left to have elbow room and finish this in a satisfying way.</p>
<p>@Wyatt: I would much rather have to gently prod a group stuck in planning paralysis than leaving out there with not enough to play with.  What this exercise in light-scripted adventure thought me is that more is better.  If I repeat the exercise, I&#8217;ll probably have a table of clues both true and false that I&#8217;ll pick randomly and sprinkle in scenes once PCs look for info.</p>
<p>@Tiorn: Guess as much as you like.  There&#8217;s one more session to go and the whole story should have played itself.  Then I&#8217;ll take a few weeks off for Vacation and Gen Con and I&#8217;ll be ready to start the next mini-campaign in the City Within.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiorn</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55807</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s your sacrifice substitute... cultists! (If there are 5 of them to be captured anyhow.)

Source of energy... hmm... the Nexus is going to come back on at some point. Just place the artifact there and ZAP!

I should shut up. Now I KNOW this hasn&#039;t been played out yet. But then again, I&#039;m just guessing... I just know that I have to be wrong. lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s your sacrifice substitute&#8230; cultists! (If there are 5 of them to be captured anyhow.)</p>
<p>Source of energy&#8230; hmm&#8230; the Nexus is going to come back on at some point. Just place the artifact there and ZAP!</p>
<p>I should shut up. Now I KNOW this hasn&#8217;t been played out yet. But then again, I&#8217;m just guessing&#8230; I just know that I have to be wrong. lol</p>
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		<title>By: Wyatt</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55806</link>
		<dc:creator>Wyatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55806</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m just not much for clues and mysteries, because the idea of red herrings and conflicting clues bothers me. In my limited experience with mysteries, throwing a red herring at a player will make them overanalyze everything from then on, to try to beat or outsmart the DM and his fake clues. To the point where they might be checking every well in town or upturning every rock (metaphorically) and generally wasting time.
.-= Wyatt&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://spiritsofeden.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/a-punishment-ill-fit-iii/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Punishment Ill Fit (III)&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m just not much for clues and mysteries, because the idea of red herrings and conflicting clues bothers me. In my limited experience with mysteries, throwing a red herring at a player will make them overanalyze everything from then on, to try to beat or outsmart the DM and his fake clues. To the point where they might be checking every well in town or upturning every rock (metaphorically) and generally wasting time.<br />
.-= Wyatt&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://spiritsofeden.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/a-punishment-ill-fit-iii/" rel="nofollow">A Punishment Ill Fit (III)</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Yan</title>
		<link>http://critical-hits.com/2009/07/14/dm-chronicles-tales-of-the-city-within-session-2-part-2/#comment-55805</link>
		<dc:creator>Yan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chattydm.net/?p=3472#comment-55805</guid>
		<description>&quot;He also said that the relic could only be destroyed by a strong source of energy&quot;

You also said that one such source was coming back every 200 years and that the lava was not fast enough to really destroy an artifact. Which really left no ambiguity to discuss about whether it meant the dragon or not...

:P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He also said that the relic could only be destroyed by a strong source of energy&#8221;</p>
<p>You also said that one such source was coming back every 200 years and that the lava was not fast enough to really destroy an artifact. Which really left no ambiguity to discuss about whether it meant the dragon or not&#8230;<br />
 <img src='http://critical-hits.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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