Few people are at either extreme, but most will lean to one side or the other a majority of the time.

Just which side is good can differ from moment to moment, and is generally a matter of personal taste.

Grahams last blog post..32 hours of D&D gaming party!

To take what you wrote and mix it up to represent more what I do, it would be something like this. (I’ve cut what doesnt fit with me and writen in CAPITAL LETTERS what I added to it.)

1) Weave a coherent world with events that happen regardless of the PCs, place the PCs in it, and let them do what they want to, affecting the game and game world as they choose to (or choose not to)? In this game, if the PCs spend a few hours haggling with the local bartender for cheaper drinks, they WOULD NOT miss the evil summoning ceremony BUT THE TIME FRAME AVAILABLE FOR THEM TO STOP IT WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY SHORTER.

2) Guide the PCs primarily along a main plot line, occasionally altering plans to fit the plot and/or the speed of the PCs. DECISIONS MADE BY THEM AFFECT THE STORY.

Do you:

1) Weave a coherent world with events that happen regardless of the PCs, place the PCs in it, and let them do what they want to, affecting the game and game world as they choose to (or choose not to)? In this game, if the PCs spend a few hours haggling with the local bartender for cheaper drinks, they might easily miss the evil summoning ceremony.

or

2) Guide the PCs primarily along a main plot line, occasionally altering plans to fit the plot and/or the speed of the PCs. In this sort of game, the evil summoning ceremony is coming to a close just as the PCs arrive, regardless of if they took an hour to get there or two (within reason, of course).

Both games can be very similar, but in the second one plot and story get to take precedence over verisimilitude in some cases.

Grahams last blog post..32 hours of D&D gaming party!

This means, if I take what you both explained, that I’m a total sandbox type of DM?!?!?!

I think I’m pretty good in english in general, but this time…

Language skill test: D20 result 1, reroll 1 = fumble!

Dan: Damn!

God: Well, you rolled a fumble!

Dan: Now what happen.

God: The univers is taken by an extreme desire to laught at you for ever and ever. The sound wave produced by the millions of readers of Chattydm.net hit you and your brain explode. You crumble to the floor in a pool of blood and shame.

What you define (under-preparation) is an improv game, where things happen mainly based on the PCs’ choices.

Sandbox, as Chatty said, is over-preparation instead. In it, things happen regardless of the PCs’ involvement, and are constantly happening around the PCs. The PCs’ choices can then influence these already-in-motion events (including stopping events or starting new ones, which then take on a life of their own separate from the PCs as well).

To clarify what I think you were trying to say, either of these types of games can be great, but you need to have just the right mix of players. A plot-based game (minor railroading, usually), by contrast, can appease more player types in general.

Would that be right? If so, I agree 100%.

Grahams last blog post..32 hours of D&D gaming party!

More often then not, the same players end up taking the decisions for the group. After playing a few of these “sand-box” games, I would always become the mediator between “the strong personnality player” vs the others. And I must say, I always get BORED big time by this type of game. I really love working on a story and see it unfold with the radical influence of the players.

While I write this, I have the strange feeling that “yet again” we are all saying pretty much the same thing. It’s the definition of what “sandbox” games mean for each of us.

Sandbox to me is this: I sit at the DM chair with nothing prepared and I ask to a bunch of players: “What do you do?”

You?

Actually I don’t typically run sandbox games because they require too much preparation. I much prefer improvising the shiny things and the rocks/meteors on the fly. If the players jump somewhere where there are no shiny toys, I come up with a new one.

The main point is that players can decide where they jump and that the decision genuinely matters.

Tommis last blog post..Roleplaying in society

the way I structure my games is very simple, I just tell the players that stuff happens… and they have to deal with it

When you made your rock vs meteorite metaphor, I had my elephant in the room moment when you said something akin to:

Have the plot line happen to them instead of around them…

I still like the “throwing rocks” method – my players actually have very active imaginations and the subtle ripples can end up being huge waves…

But right now, they’re PCs are not personnaly engaged in the storyline, so the imagination engine didn’t kick up.

You made a few suggestions that I’ll most likely use that should make them involved all right!

@Rafe:
You’re absolutely right – no social contract.

We did make clear that we’re planning to run the Spellgard Tower scenario, that they’ll be going to the Oracle. The objective of the first sessions was to get them to level 2 and find motivations top go to the Oracle.

Beyond that (don’t know if that even worked yet), I don’t know what most of my players are looking for and I’m trying to please them all.

Which, it would seem, is a great recipe to please no one.

I’ll most likely have that chat with my friends soon to see what compromise we can strike… and make sure everyone is aware.

I remember a wise man saying “If not all parties are aware of a compromise, it’s most likely called something else.”

Eric Maziades last blog post..Meet Eldak "Grissom" Serpenthelm

Still, I try hard to entertain and since I have storytellers (I’m one of them, to a certainn extent) in my group, we weave some story elements to please that streak.

I like to develop villians and allies that my characters can get to know and love/hate. Often these are recurring but not too recurring. Most of the time defeating a villian becomes part of at least one characters life goal.

My group though is aware that I put a lot of work into my dungeons. I don’t want to waste my time and have a the group go off in some random direction. So they are very good to cooperate once I’m creating the kind of adventure they want. They drive the strategic level thinking on adventures and I drive the individual tactical view.

An example. I have a rogue character whose life goal is to rule the cities underworld. His background was his joining a gang in his teen years after living as a child in an orphanage. So over the course of the campaign he is clashing with npcs intent on stopping him from achieving his goals. Sometimes the group will crush a local group bad guys who the rogue secretly wanted eliminated in his quest for power. The other characters though think they were just ridding the city of the local criminal element.

So each character has his own goals. Adventures often touch on multiple goals of multiple characters. Sometimes its focused on a single character. When its not your characters “turn” its just a routine adventure. When it is you kind of shine as the story lead in….

love your blog chatty…

It helps that I usually design adventures with my player’s tastes and motivation in mind.

Lets still talk about it for the sake of discussion. For this kind of approach you need to at least have one PC that is politically driven, to accept being a candidate. You can hardly force someone in a management office if he does not want to, unless you have peer pressure and reason not to just run away.

None of our PC are politically inclined and have real attachment to city yet. (Well except me but being a co creator of the setting makes my attachment obvious). One of the sub purpose of these city sessions is to build PC to city involvement. To avoid the “why should I care?” situation.

As a candidate, the PC would then become a natural target for whatever evilness the DM has planned.

@Rafe: Yeah, I know that many games out there encourage sharing world building and campaign plots. I’ve yet to try it and my players more or less show up to be a player and are more than happy to leave all the fiddly bits to me. I’ve got my friend Yan helping me out though and I greatly appreciate it.

@Conlaen: Welcome to the blog! Yup, railroading, when used sparingly and with the group’s consent is quite all right. Its just another tool in the GM’s arsenal to try to make the game the most enjoyable to his own group.