Comments on: The Subtle Empowerment of the 4E Wizard

By: New 4E House Rule: Channel Arcanity | Critical Hits

New 4E House Rule: Channel Arcanity | Critical Hits — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:54:53 +0000

[...] from my post over the weekend about the new Tome Implement presented in Arcane Power and how it adds more options for the 4th [...]

By: OriginalSultan

OriginalSultan — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:03:22 +0000

@ Tonester: your idea of letting Wizards have multiple spells for each level “memorized” but only being able to cast one is exactly what I was thinking about. I think it would put the Wizard right where he needs to be in terms of game balance, and at the same time would increase the “feel” of the Wizard (in the sort of way that he always has just the right spell for the right situation).

By: Bartoneus

Bartoneus — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:24:50 +0000

@Tonester: I hadn’t even thought of that, and honestly I like it a hell of a lot. Might have to try that out, thanks!

By: Tonester

Tonester — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:10:26 +0000

This doesn’t fix much in my opinion. I still don’t understand why they don’t take the Channel Divinity route with wizards.

Have 2-3 level 7 Daily’s…. but you can only use 1 of them once per day.

Have 2-3 level level 1 Encounters, but you can only use 1 of them once per encounter.

By: TheMainEvent

TheMainEvent — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:14:17 +0000

If Wizards really seem that nerfed why no let them switch spells with a short rest?

By: Bartoneus

Bartoneus — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:54:09 +0000

@Meanderthal: The tomes that I’m referencing do allow you to substitute in a spell it contains once per day, so that is a little more added versatility.

@Original Sultan: I can definitely understand your reaction, but I think that once we play well into the paragon tier and The O’s wizard has 4 daily spells, he may start switching them up a bit more. I also think we’ll see a larger list of spells to choose from is a bigger deal than you think, essentially it looks to me that the 4E wizard is beginning to play much like a combination of the 3rd Edition Sorcerer and Wizard classes.

Also, what you have to look at is these mechanics in comparison to every other class in the system. What the O was implying is that the only thing that would make the Wizard better in this vein is more daily spells, of course that would make EVERY class better. The Wizard is the only class that gets a choice for daily powers, so by just taking sleep and Bigby’s Icy Grasp he’s really just staying at the level of the other classes. Even if he only switches those spells out a handful of times, the ability to do so is a boon for the class and the more selection he has the better the advantage.

By: OriginalSultan

OriginalSultan — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:48:44 +0000

Extra daily attack spells added to the spellbook = yawn. The heroic tier feat Expanded Spellbook does the same thing, yet no one was clambering to take that feat. Sure, it’s nice getting extra spells without taking a feat, but I agree with The O here. I have found that having extra spells to choose from isn’t all that helpful, except in the uncommon instance where you know what kind of monsters you will be fighting in advance. Perhaps that situation is more common in other D&D campaigns, but it doesn’t happen too often in the ones I play in.

Now being able to substitute on the fly, as Meanderthal implies, would be much more helpful.

By: Peturd

Peturd — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:37:28 +0000

I’d never venture to say your understanding is way off, or that mine is better, but in my opinion it does make the wizard a fair bit more powerful. You are right that you don’t get any more powers during a given adventure/between extended rests, BUT it brings back a bit of the old advantage wizards used to have. That advantage is that if you are going to go to a dungeon you know is heavily populated by things with ice resistance and fire vulnerability then on that day you are not going to want Bigby’s Icy Grasp. Maybe your other spell for that level was Phantasmal Assailant. So, as awesomely cool as illusions may be, you’ll want that handy new fire spell from the tome you happened to find instead of the illusion. Minimizeing chances for disadvantages, and sometimes creating an advantage, was always the wizards best trait in my mind. Most wizard damage dealing spells have a type associated with it, which means the more variation in types (via more daily options) the more effective you will be in each situation.

By: The O

The O — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:56:27 +0000

Unless my understanding of the class is way off, that’s not as great a buff as it may seem. You can add a greater variety of spells to your book, but it doesn’t increase the amount that you have available to use during an adventure/between extended rests. So with Dave’s current game, had Arcane Power been out from the start, and had Dave given me tomes for a whole bunch of dailies, I’d still likely just memorize sleep and Bigby’s Icy Grasp every day with all these extra spells sitting around never to be used. If I’m mistaken, please let me know since I want the wizard class improved .

By: Meanderthal

Meanderthal — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:56:00 +0000

As far as I can tell, rules as written let you add the spells from a tome into your spellbook, which means they’re available when you want to memorize them after an extended rest. If you /don’t/ memorize one, and you need it, you can use the tome’s power to switch it out on the fly.

Which, needless to say, is freakin’ awesome. I’m well-pleased with Arcane Power so far.

By: kaeosdad

kaeosdad — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:04:22 +0000

I like it and agree with xero. It's a good idea and makes wizards feel more wizardy. I thought it was bullshit initially that wizards never got more spells or were unable to get more spells than they did. I bet even the fighter will get a similar mechanic eventually, martial training where they can learn a new move from a mentor, or teach a fellow PC one of their moves. That would be rad. kaeosdad´s last post: Why I Am Stingy With XP

By: Xero

Xero — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:00:45 +0000

Good. Wizards should have a good selection of spells to choose from, and I don’t think two dailies of each level cuts it.

By: Brett

Brett — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:37:29 +0000

I hadn’t notice that, that is very handy indeed and could make the wizards a real jack of all trades in the party. I thought the wizard got some nice new powers across the board in Arcane Power and between the tomes and familiars should be much more useful all around. I am not sold on summoners, but the illusionist looks very nice as well. Definitely a big step of the pointy hat guys in the book.