Comments on: Review: "Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song" http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/ The Journal of Gamer Culture Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:53:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Critical Hits Gift Guide 2008 | Critical Hits http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63929 Critical Hits Gift Guide 2008 | Critical Hits Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:44:00 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63929 [...] Player’s Guide or Forgotten Heroes: For the person in your gaming group who really, really wanted to play a [...] [...] Player’s Guide or Forgotten Heroes: For the person in your gaming group who really, really wanted to play a [...]

]]> By: The return of entangling and the red death | Critical Hits http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63928 The return of entangling and the red death | Critical Hits Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:00:10 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63928 [...] it’ll be a while before our high-kicking friends make it into core 4e. Fortunately, there are many good alternatives in the meantime. Share and [...] [...] it’ll be a while before our high-kicking friends make it into core 4e. Fortunately, there are many good alternatives in the meantime. Share and [...]

]]> By: Are you ready to ROCK? | Critical Hits http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63927 Are you ready to ROCK? | Critical Hits Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:51:05 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63927 [...] brief comparison to the Advanced Player’s Guide version and the Forgotten Heroes version: Play the APG version (Troubador) if you want more of the swashbuckling type (especially [...] [...] brief comparison to the Advanced Player’s Guide version and the Forgotten Heroes version: Play the APG version (Troubador) if you want more of the swashbuckling type (especially [...]

]]> By: 4e / GSL Advanced Player's Guide questions - Page 6 - EN World D&D / RPG News http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63926 4e / GSL Advanced Player's Guide questions - Page 6 - EN World D&D / RPG News Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:32:23 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63926 [...] we'll be posting pregens built from the classes in the book. Here are a couple recent reviews: Critical Hits: "You have to give credit to Goodman Games for putting out a solid and profession... Joe Kushner's review here on EN World: "If you're looking to pick up some of the 3e slack that [...] [...] we’ll be posting pregens built from the classes in the book. Here are a couple recent reviews: Critical Hits: "You have to give credit to Goodman Games for putting out a solid and profession… Joe Kushner’s review here on EN World: "If you’re looking to pick up some of the 3e slack that [...]

]]> By: Tomcat1066 http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63925 Tomcat1066 Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:09:10 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63925 Dave, Thanks for the link ;) I'll have to pick this one up based on your review, because some of the most-missed classes for me seem to be in it, and because of one word above all others...apocalypse! :D <abbr><em>Tomcat1066´s last post: <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheGeekEmporium/~3/415872767/" rel="nofollow">Pirates Versus Ninjas</a></em></abbr> Dave,

Thanks for the link ;)

I’ll have to pick this one up based on your review, because some of the most-missed classes for me seem to be in it, and because of one word above all others…apocalypse! :D

Tomcat1066´s last post: Pirates Versus Ninjas

]]> By: Scott http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63924 Scott Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:11:55 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63924 I always thought of the monk to draw on internal power (Chi) or from anamil-spirit powers. Not divine from gods. The other thing that I seem to see more in the movies now is the martial artist relying on a lot on ad-hoc weapons, not just a fix set. We see them pick up a chair, hub-cat, pool-cue, pie tin, or whateven is lying around and make it into a deadly weapon. Does the FH monk capture this, or just some predefine weapons? I also read the preview of the Druid, and so far, liked it better than any I've seen on the web. Not as overpowered as some, and nice mix of nature and shapechanging, without relying on one or the other. It would be interesting to know what are the main differences between FH and AGP takes on a class by class basis, as well as comparison to the Wizards preview of the Barbarian. Scott I always thought of the monk to draw on internal power (Chi) or from anamil-spirit powers. Not divine from gods.

The other thing that I seem to see more in the movies now is the martial artist relying on a lot on ad-hoc weapons, not just a fix set. We see them pick up a chair, hub-cat, pool-cue, pie tin, or whateven is lying around and make it into a deadly weapon. Does the FH monk capture this, or just some predefine weapons?

I also read the preview of the Druid, and so far, liked it better than any I’ve seen on the web. Not as overpowered as some, and nice mix of nature and shapechanging, without relying on one or the other.

It would be interesting to know what are the main differences between FH and AGP takes on a class by class basis, as well as comparison to the Wizards preview of the Barbarian.

Scott

]]> By: Bartoneus http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63923 Bartoneus Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:17:26 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63923 From Races & Classes, Wizards revealed that their initial thoughts on the Sorcerer is someone who is much more tied to the magic they cast than a Wizard is. The example they use is if a sorcerer casts a cold spell they may be surrounded by frost and cold for a short time, which slows attacking enemies down, or if one casts fireball they might catch fire and do damage to nearby enemies. I like the concept, but it starts to sound almost like a Primal class to me than anything else, not sure how I feel about that. Plus I'm still trying to figure out my Martial Controller idea. From Races & Classes, Wizards revealed that their initial thoughts on the Sorcerer is someone who is much more tied to the magic they cast than a Wizard is. The example they use is if a sorcerer casts a cold spell they may be surrounded by frost and cold for a short time, which slows attacking enemies down, or if one casts fireball they might catch fire and do damage to nearby enemies. I like the concept, but it starts to sound almost like a Primal class to me than anything else, not sure how I feel about that.

Plus I’m still trying to figure out my Martial Controller idea.

]]> By: The Game http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63922 The Game Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:19:55 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63922 Greg: Thanks, Greg. I definitely like the concept of the Bard a lot, and is a lot closer to how I always wanted the Bard to be. I'm just worried about ease of play. Kameron: I think game designers are still figuring out how to differentiate the Sorcerer and Wizard now that Vancian casting is gone. The APG has Monk as Divine Striker, though doesn't really use the hallmark of the Divine power source at all. Greg: Thanks, Greg. I definitely like the concept of the Bard a lot, and is a lot closer to how I always wanted the Bard to be. I’m just worried about ease of play.

Kameron: I think game designers are still figuring out how to differentiate the Sorcerer and Wizard now that Vancian casting is gone.

The APG has Monk as Divine Striker, though doesn’t really use the hallmark of the Divine power source at all.

]]> By: Kameron http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63921 Kameron Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:06:00 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63921 I noticed that neither supplement included a Sorcerer. Talk about your forgotten hero! :( My own vision of the Monk would be as a Divine Striker, but I like Goodman's take on the Druid and Barbarian power sources/roles. <abbr><em>Kameron´s last post: <a href="http://www.kameronmf.com/2008/10/07/i-am-a-revisionist/" rel="nofollow">I am a revisionist</a></em></abbr> I noticed that neither supplement included a Sorcerer. Talk about your forgotten hero! :(

My own vision of the Monk would be as a Divine Striker, but I like Goodman’s take on the Druid and Barbarian power sources/roles.

Kameron´s last post: I am a revisionist

]]> By: Greg http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63920 Greg Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:36:43 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63920 Thanks for the great writeup, Dave. The 3e idea of the bard as a jack of all trades was something I wanted to preserve, as well as the ability to heal and buff your allies through song. That is a lot to put into one class, sure, but I took it as a challenge. I think it's important to note that with the powers available at each tier, it's possible to be a more melee-oriented bard and still be able to fulfill the Leader role. Glad you liked the different instruments! That's something I've always wanted to see in the game as well. A dwarf playing a triangle is a different kind of bard than an eladrin violinist and they have different abilities which illustrate that. Thanks for the great writeup, Dave.

The 3e idea of the bard as a jack of all trades was something I wanted to preserve, as well as the ability to heal and buff your allies through song. That is a lot to put into one class, sure, but I took it as a challenge. I think it’s important to note that with the powers available at each tier, it’s possible to be a more melee-oriented bard and still be able to fulfill the Leader role.

Glad you liked the different instruments! That’s something I’ve always wanted to see in the game as well. A dwarf playing a triangle is a different kind of bard than an eladrin violinist and they have different abilities which illustrate that.

]]> By: The Game http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63919 The Game Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:18:49 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63919 Thanks for stopping by, Tavis. That makes a lot of sense and is certainly an interesting way to go with the Monk. I suppose it's a little bit of disconnect in addition because it's part 3e Monk and part new. But now that you say that and I look at the powers again, it makes perfect sense, and is a lot more interesting than I first took it to be. Thanks for stopping by, Tavis. That makes a lot of sense and is certainly an interesting way to go with the Monk. I suppose it’s a little bit of disconnect in addition because it’s part 3e Monk and part new. But now that you say that and I look at the powers again, it makes perfect sense, and is a lot more interesting than I first took it to be.

]]> By: Tavis http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63918 Tavis Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:01:35 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63918 Thanks for an astute review, Dave! People in a RPG.net thread have been wishing there were designer's notes, and I agree - the non-transparency of the way that a class's flavor is expressed 99% through mechanics means it's sometimes hard to get the spirit across to the reader. To choose an example dear to my own heart, you're right that monks can have lots of weapons powers, but note that many of them require the monk to throw away or break the weapon. As I watched my favorite martial arts movies, it seemed to me that the hero isn't typically an unarmed warrior; rather, it's someone who uses many weapons well in the space of a single battle but relies on none of them. I designed the monk's weapon hurling or shattering powers and their secret technique magic-weapon-equivalency in order to encourage that kind of fight scene. Which, to be sure, isn't going to be what everyone wants from their monk, but it would have been cool to highlight this aspect so it'd be easier to pick up on for people who do. Thanks for an astute review, Dave! People in a RPG.net thread have been wishing there were designer’s notes, and I agree – the non-transparency of the way that a class’s flavor is expressed 99% through mechanics means it’s sometimes hard to get the spirit across to the reader.

To choose an example dear to my own heart, you’re right that monks can have lots of weapons powers, but note that many of them require the monk to throw away or break the weapon. As I watched my favorite martial arts movies, it seemed to me that the hero isn’t typically an unarmed warrior; rather, it’s someone who uses many weapons well in the space of a single battle but relies on none of them. I designed the monk’s weapon hurling or shattering powers and their secret technique magic-weapon-equivalency in order to encourage that kind of fight scene. Which, to be sure, isn’t going to be what everyone wants from their monk, but it would have been cool to highlight this aspect so it’d be easier to pick up on for people who do.

]]> By: 4e / GSL Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song - available at RPGNow.com - EN World D&D / RPG News http://critical-hits.com/2008/10/10/review-forgotten-heroes-fang-fist-and-song/#comment-63917 4e / GSL Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song - available at RPGNow.com - EN World D&D / RPG News Fri, 10 Oct 2008 05:01:41 +0000 http://www.critical-hits.com/?p=2307#comment-63917 [...] full review is up: Review: “Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song” | Critical Hits __________________ Dave Chalker Editor in Chief, Critical-Hits.com, Curator of the RPG Bloggers [...] [...] full review is up: Review: “Forgotten Heroes: Fang, Fist, and Song” | Critical Hits __________________ Dave Chalker Editor in Chief, Critical-Hits.com, Curator of the RPG Bloggers [...]

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