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That is not at all how scaling terrain is suppose to work. If the players go back to the “same castle” the wall climbing DC should not scale, it stays the same, the wall hasn’t changed. The idea is that as players level up they go into places with harder to scale walls, more deadly traps, etc. The idea makes sense, as the reviewer mentions it’s a good idea to change the descriptions of the challenges as they are getting harder. It’s not the same stuff the characters are encountering.

Regarding the Skill challenge system, I regret that it probably is a system that only works in 4th Edition D&D. The system itself allows it: you get a bonus to your rolls equal to half your level, and training gives you a flat +5 bonus to rolls means everyone has a viable chance to contribute. Perhaps not always a great chance, especially if the skill challenge begins to slip away and the penalties begin to accrue, but my experience has always been to bemoan that all games have “skill-haves” and “skill-have-nots” (often the guys who are really good at killing things). So you have the skill people sitting out on the body-count competition, and the killers looking on when the time for negotiation or city-time involves more than wenching and drinking. Part of that is on the players, but part of it is on the systems, too, ever since we took as fact that wizards were scrawny twerps in robes who die from the first touch of a weapon and fighters were laconic idiots whose idea of a conversation is limited to “I like swords!” I know, this is just stereotyping, but the systems enabled it. 4th Edition is purposefully trying to smooth everything out so no one has to miss out on any aspect of the game. Ambitious? Heck yeah! But it’ll have some flaws until it’s perfected, and the skills challenge section has a few rough spots in what is an incredible idea.

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I mean if you want to make the DC for the wall climbing stay the same go ahead it won’t brake anything in the system. Just don’t consider it a challenge anymore and award XP for it. Then again their is plenty of way to make it harder and still make it a challenge while keeping the realism. “They knew you’d come they’ve put blade protruding out from the wall and covered it with grease now the DC is X”

This is the back bone system, fluff it up like you want, those number are just their to give you an idea of what is considered a challenge for a level x character.

my 2 cents

I guess I’m bitter because I REALLY WANTED to like 4E. I was really looking forward to it and it was a big let down. =*(
I really like Star Wars Saga system. I cant figure out how I can dislike 4E so mush and like Saga so mush when the systems are so alike. =/

In 4e, however, everyone has a certain base level of competency. As you get to higher levels, you’ll probably be able to try a wider variety of things, but unless you improve the skill (skill points in 3.5, feats, powers, and ability score raising in 4e) you will still have moderate difficulty walking that tightrope.

I have since embraced it. I’m for the ‘let’s gauge difficulty as it comes up and according to how hard I perceive a task to be for level X PCs) and I’ll play it from there’ approach.

You know what, chances are players will never, ever notice it.

This is Rule of Fun territory. On the other hand, I will allow players to invoke the Rule of Cool and will give generous bonuses if they wow me with their creative skill use and description.

Yes, you are right, killing duos not make you bettor at any one thing(not to mention that there are many other ways of gaining XP other then killing, like Skill Challenges which make you use skills), but just because you are higher level duos not mean that wall should be just as hard to climb as when you were 1Lv.

Is a stupid mechanic for GMs that don’t know how to challenge the players. Want to make it harder? Make it winter so if there is not ice there is mold from the rain. Make it the same Athletics DC to climb the wall as before so is a bit easier to climb but give him a surprise when he gets up to the top, like added security.

The PC changes, the wall stays the same.

It’s not so much as finding fault. It’s more my own flavour of Change Resistance.

But yeah, if true balance exists, I should be stark raving against 4e while you are stating Care Bears (Controllers) and Flying Unicorns (Brutes)

I go with the latter, and so, I suspect, does 4e. Something that’s Hard to do at 30th level has to BE hard to do at 30th level. That wall which was a DC30 climb at 1st level is now little more than a descriptive line of prose unless it’s been seriously beefed up. It’s now a Wall of Demonic Souls coated in razorglass shards, covered in everburning oil and is encased in an anti-magic shell.

The examples don’t scale because, by design, they shouldn’t scale as the stuff you’re doing at the different tiers changes. Those wooden doors you had to knock down at the start of your character’s careers are now platinum-iridium force doors designed to inflict insanity on anyone touching them. At least.

The challenge numbers reflect a learning curve in the game too – at lower levels (as per CDM’s own math) there’s a roughly 50/50 chance that a lone character will succeed on a given DC 20 task without aid, equipment or magic. Ramp up the levels and they’ll quickly discover that Aid Another (read:teamwork!) is essential for pretty much any challenge. First and foremost, 4e is a game which rewards teamwork.

If you focus on a handful of skill specialities (your PC#1 example) you’re rewarded by being able to do the Hard stuff pretty regularly, though even the untrained-but-heroic has a chance of success. Again, Aid Another comes in – that 30th level Climbing expert could manage that DC30 Wall of Demonic Souls reasonably well, then use Aid Another (dropping a rope from the top, say), make a DC10 check in his sleep and help Noggin the Bumbling non-Climber make the ascent (+2 to Aid Another, +2 for braced rope).

I quite like that Hard stays Hard in 4e, but what’s Hard changes. Insert your own viagra joke here. I’m too lazy.

Wow. I’m arguing pro 4e and CDM’s findin’ fault. The world’s about to end! Run for the hills!

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